# what's broke now - sick to my stomach!



## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

*what's broke now?*

Ok...I put the bike back together after the latest jetting change and started it up and let it idle while I was checking for gas leaks or anthing out of the ordinary. After a minute or two I went to bump the throttle and just as I did it sounded like something let go...the engine died and it sounded like it free spun to a stop. Now the starter whirls like there's no load on it and it won't hit a lick. Using the rope to turn it over it does have compression but after I get it past the first compression it turns over way too easily I think. Using the starter it does have some air coming out of the catch can vent and the exhaust. Have about 6 or 7 hours on the motor. 

So what did Kawasaki screw me on now? 


Thanks.


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## blue beast (Feb 16, 2010)

maybe they didnt tighten up something good...


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

blue beast said:


> maybe they didnt tighten up something good...


I wish it were that simple. I did the work myself. It was running fine when something let go.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

I don't know, but it sounds bad. Something chain or rod related.


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## blue beast (Feb 16, 2010)

u said what did kawie screw me on now
i thought kawie did the work....


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

Ok I don't think the starter or the rope are engaging and turning the motor. The motor is not locked b/c it spun down after it died. Flywheel???


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## LM83 (Jul 23, 2010)

How do u know it has compression then?


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

Do a compression check, then look at the obvious. Then check all the little things in and out. Never had this happen to me but could be starter broke. What do you mean it wound down after it turn off?


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## brutemike (Mar 23, 2010)

No offense but sounds like operstor error to me so dont blame kawie.just my 2cents.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

speedman said:


> Do a compression check, then look at the obvious. Then check all the little things in and out. Never had this happen to me but could be starter broke. What do you mean it wound down after it turn off?


I mean something popped, it died instantly, and something continued to spin for a couple of seconds. It did not die like hitting the kill switch. Something was still spinning.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

LM83 said:


> How do u know it has compression then?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The rope is hard to get going just like normal, hence I said it had compression, but once it starts moving something changes and then there is very little resistance and the motor does not sound like it is turning over. The electric starter spins like there is no load on it.....BUT...and this is the strange thing...I can hear/feal air coming out of the catch can vent and exhaust. 

Could the starter be only partially engaging the flywheel?


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## LM83 (Jul 23, 2010)

Hmmm. Could be some teeth on the flywheel. Maybe pull the cord till it gets "tight" then hit the starter n see. Something is far from right tho. 


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## LM83 (Jul 23, 2010)

Wait. Nvm. Naw, something is broke. Lol brain fart. 


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## nathen53 (Jun 13, 2011)

Kinda crazy but check to see if it blew a spark plug out


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Possibly the torque limiter or starter gear? Woodruff key? I doubt it unless the drag you feel is the key hanging on the groove when it rotates by when pulling the rope start.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

nathen53 said:


> Kinda crazy but check to see if it blew a spark plug out


That's one of the first things I checked. Plugs are good.


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## carms_2 (Jul 21, 2010)

Id say you've got a compression problem. Id start my checking timing and compression once you've done that you may find what your looking for.

You could also have a bent valve if you didn't put the engine back together properly, but I definitely wouldn't blame the bike Id have to say it was mechanic error.

No biggie though we'll help you through it.


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## drtj (May 3, 2009)

Sheared teeth off starter or the fly wheel?


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

carms_2 said:


> Id say you've got a compression problem. Id start my checking timing and compression once you've done that you may find what your looking for.
> 
> You could also have a bent valve if you didn't put the engine back together properly, but I definitely wouldn't blame the bike Id have to say it was mechanic error.
> 
> No biggie though we'll help you through it.


I'm sure the compression test would check out bad as either the starter is not connected or there's no/little compression as evident by the hyper speed the starter is now turning.

How does jetting bend valves?

I wonder...do you guys think the two broken exhaust valves which got me here and cost me the first $3K were "mechanic" error as well...?

Thanks for your help.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

drtj said:


> Sheared teeth off starter or the fly wheel?


That would seem to make sense by the way it's acting now using the starter, but why would it kill the motor instantly when it let go? Why would the rope have good compression for the first 1/4 pull or so and then go to virtually nothing. I don't have a good enough understanding how the starter/flywheel/crank system works and the manual doesn't give much info either.

Would sheering a flywheel key cause it to lose time or some other issue critical to motor operation (not starting)?


Thanks.


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## carms_2 (Jul 21, 2010)

I dont think he sheared teeth off the fly wheel cause he says he has some resistance on the cord till he pulls it a few times. Then it free wheeles.

Id have to say he has timing issues or a bent valve. Once it passes the compression stroke there's no compression cause the valve wont seat.

If he set up the timing incorrect that would be the first thing that would mess up.

He should stick a comp gauge on it and go from there quick easy and will tell him whats going on.


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## trailmaker (Jun 29, 2010)

JJB said:


> That would seem to make sense by the way it's acting now using the starter, but why would it kill the motor instantly when it let go? Why would the rope have good compression for the first 1/4 pull or so and then go to virtually nothing. I don't have a good enough understanding how the starter/flywheel/crank system works and the manual doesn't give much info either.
> 
> Would sheering a flywheel key cause it to lose time or some other issue critical to motor operation (not starting)?
> 
> ...


Actually I have heard that happening with a dyna cdi being that they advance the timing. Sheer the key then the timing is way off.
I ripped up a fly wheel on a tractor when the starter spline didn't commpletly disengage after it started. 

Do you hear anything loose or clanking when you turn it over the little you can?


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## dookie (Mar 24, 2011)

But when you pull the cord it doesnt engauge with the flywheel. I also say timing or valve issues



carms_2 said:


> I dont think he sheared teeth off the fly wheel cause he says he has some resistance on the cord till he pulls it a few times. Then it free wheeles.
> 
> Id have to say he has timing issues or a bent valve. Once it passes the compression stroke there's no compression cause the valve wont seat.
> 
> ...


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## kdixer (Apr 14, 2010)

If it was timing it would not have sat there and idled would it? Would it have not damaged itself in the first few revolutions of the engine.

Ignition timing is controlled by the flywheel but not valve timing. If the flywheel was loose or the woodruf key was left out, it could rotate out of time and cause the engine to die. It could also continue to rotate on the crank after the crank stopped. In addition the electric starter gear turns the flywheel via a one way bearing, if the flywheel can spin on the crank due to being loose or a missing key, the starter gear will also spin freely. Check your flywheel and you will find your problem.

I think what you are describing on the pull start is normal. It will have resistance on the compression stroke and then appear to rotate freely until the next compression stroke.


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## brute574 (Aug 10, 2011)

Was the Cam Chain All the way on the Teeth Of the Crank/Cam Gear? When it Stated to Rev it Jumped Time


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## whoolieshop (Mar 22, 2011)

kdixer said:


> If it was timing it would not have sat there and idled would it? Would it have not damaged itself in the first few revolutions of the engine.
> 
> Ignition timing is controlled by the flywheel but not valve timing. If the flywheel was loose or the woodruf key was left out, it could rotate out of time and cause the engine to die. It could also continue to rotate on the crank after the crank stopped. In addition the electric starter gear turns the flywheel via a one way bearing, if the flywheel can spin on the crank due to being loose or a missing key, the starter gear will also spin freely. Check your flywheel and you will find your problem.
> 
> I think what you are describing on the pull start is normal. It will have resistance on the compression stroke and then appear to rotate freely until the next compression stroke.


I had a similar issue on my 650 arctic cat. It was idling then died, it just jumped time.. Tore it down and re-set the timing she fired right up. Backed it out of the shop and put it in gear to pull up to the wash pit and it jumped time again.

Replaced the timing chain, it was completely shot, it moved like a rusty bicycle chain. Would stay set a little bit then just jump time and the engine died. 

I would say if you had a timing chain issue it might get easier to turn at times because its either holding a valve open or not rotating the valvetrain. Pull your valve adjustment covers and watch what happens as you rotate the engine over.. You should be able to watch or hold a finger on the rockers to verify they are moving as they should. This might shed some light on the problem.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

carms_2 said:


> I dont think he sheared teeth off the fly wheel cause he says he has some resistance on the cord till he pulls it a few times. Then it free wheeles.
> 
> Id have to say he has timing issues or a bent valve. Once it passes the compression stroke there's no compression cause the valve wont seat.
> 
> ...


The cord has resistance every time for the first 1/4 pull or so.

This was a built (completed) motor from FST and it has been running for several hours. I've just been playing with the jetting. If the timing is incorrect it happened in an instant last night. 

I will find a shop with a comp gauge, but I already know by listening to it turn over that it either a)has no/very little compression or b) the starter is not engaged.


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## whoolieshop (Mar 22, 2011)

Another thing you can do is use one of those rubber nozzles and stick it down in your sparkplug hole, blow some air into the cylinder and check your oil fill, intake and exhaust for air rushing out.

If you're at TDC and the valves are closed you shouldn't have any air rushing out anywhere.

If air rushes out of any of the following these are the problems:
Carb/Intake = Intake valve open
Exhaust Pipe = Exhaust valve open
Oil Fill Plug = Rings Siezed/hole in piston etc.


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## kdixer (Apr 14, 2010)

Don't forget theres is a compression release built into the cam shaft also. That is another reason you are feeling limited compression when pulling the rope.

Again, "died when throttle was blipped", "spun to a stop", "no load on starter" and "won't hit a lick" leads me to believe the flywheel is the issue. Did you put the woodruff key in?


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

trailmaker said:


> Actually I have heard that happening with a dyna cdi being that they advance the timing. Sheer the key then the timing is way off.
> I ripped up a fly wheel on a tractor when the starter spline didn't commpletly disengage after it started.
> 
> Do you hear anything loose or clanking when you turn it over the little you can?


No out of the ordinary sounds at all.

Any I can "turn" it over endlessly. It's just the first 1/4 pull of the rope which feels "normal" = hard as hell from the compression. After that it's like pulling a weedeater.


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## whoolieshop (Mar 22, 2011)

Don't judge the compression by anything other than a compression gauge. These big bore bikes don't have a lot of compression anyway. To be in spec my 650 H1 engine only requires 70-85 psi of compression, The 650 V twin engines (kawi) engines are within spec if they have 45-80 psi of compression! Check the manual and find out what is an acceptable compression ratio for your bike before you assume it's low!

Edit: you can pick up your own compression tester from 30-50 bucks at advance, just be sure to take a spark plug with you and verify that it comes with the proper adapters, I had to have a 10mm adapter to fit the plugs in my bike it was in the $50 kit.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

kdixer said:


> If it was timing it would not have sat there and idled would it? Would it have not damaged itself in the first few revolutions of the engine.
> 
> Ignition timing is controlled by the flywheel but not valve timing. If the flywheel was loose or the woodruf key was left out, it could rotate out of time and cause the engine to die. It could also continue to rotate on the crank after the crank stopped. In addition the electric starter gear turns the flywheel via a one way bearing, if the flywheel can spin on the crank due to being loose or a missing key, the starter gear will also spin freely. Check your flywheel and you will find your problem.
> 
> I think what you are describing on the pull start is normal. It will have resistance on the compression stroke and then appear to rotate freely until the next compression stroke.


That's what I was thinking...no way it can be timing b/c it was running and has ran for several hours. 

Your theory makes sense I hope you're right! Thanks man.

On the pull start though...I've pulled it alot...well at least when it was a stock 750 and yes the comp release does enable you to pull it, but this is different...much to easy to be turning over a 840. After the initial 1/4 rope of course.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

kdixer said:


> Don't forget theres is a compression release built into the cam shaft also. That is another reason you are feeling limited compression when pulling the rope.
> 
> Again, "died when throttle was blipped", "spun to a stop", "no load on starter" and "won't hit a lick" leads me to believe the flywheel is the issue. Did you put the woodruff key in?


I'm assuming the "woodruff" key is the flywheel key? 

I shipped a broken motor (see avatar) to FST. He shipped me back an 840. I installed it, ran it, jetted, ran it, jetted, ran it, jetted...you get the point. Now last night, just when I think I'm done with the jetting work...start it...pop...cuss...yell, etc. So I'm assuming the "woodruff" key was in it when it left PA.

If this is anything more than a flywheel key, I hope you guys are needing some pampered, as in never seen water or mud, parts because if it is I'm parting out, cutting my loses, and trying another brand. Team green has not been kind to me.


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## carms_2 (Jul 21, 2010)

If it has no resistance on the cord after a quarter pull the Id definitley think its compression. The fact that it ran is of no concern because the timing could chains or slack adjusters could have let go.

And for the record the pull cord has nothing to do with the fly wheel. 

I believe your problem is compression related. 

Let us know how you make out.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

pondtunes said:


> Don't judge the compression by anything other than a compression gauge. These big bore bikes don't have a lot of compression anyway. To be in spec my 650 H1 engine only requires 70-85 psi of compression, The 650 V twin engines (kawi) engines are within spec if they have 45-80 psi of compression! Check the manual and find out what is an acceptable compression ratio for your bike before you assume it's low!
> 
> Edit: you can pick up your own compression tester from 30-50 bucks at advance, just be sure to take a spark plug with you and verify that it comes with the proper adapters, I had to have a 10mm adapter to fit the plugs in my bike it was in the $50 kit.


Yeah I hear you on the compression and I will test it. But I know what the starter/motor sounds like when it's turning over and everthing is ok...and this is not right. The starter has picked up a LOT of rpm's.

Thanks for the tip on the tester. I really appreciate everyone's help.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

carms_2 said:


> If it has no resistance on the cord after a quarter pull the Id definitley think its compression. The fact that it ran is of no concern because the timing could chains or slack adjusters could have let go.
> 
> And for the record the pull cord has nothing to do with the fly wheel.
> 
> ...


What I meant was it couldn't be timing before the event last night. If it broke chain(s) or slack adjusters then of course it's out of time now. 

Also - if it was out of time now wouldn't there be interference between small round things and big round things when I turn it over? I know what it sounds like when things collide inside the cylinder (again, see avatar) and this was a very small "pop" and not another sound since. 

Also - what about the "spinning down" I heard?

Thanks again guys?


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## kdixer (Apr 14, 2010)

carms_2 said:


> If it has no resistance on the cord after a quarter pull the Id definitley think its compression. The fact that it ran is of no concern because the timing could chains or slack adjusters could have let go.
> 
> *And for the record the pull cord has nothing to do with the fly wheel.*
> 
> ...


You are right, but he said the starter turns as if it has no load and something kept spinning after the engine stopped. That sounds like the inertia of the flywheel kept it spinning for a few seconds after the engine stopped. And the starter gear turns the crankshaft via the flywheel. So if the flywheel is spinning on the crank, the starter will not turn the crank. And since the ignition timing is off the bike will not pull start either.

Valvetrain timing does not explain the starter or the spinning noise he heard after the engine died.

If FST built the motor it sounds like you may want to contact them and see if there is a warranty or such that will cover their work.


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## Cobb_05 (Oct 3, 2011)

kdixer said:


> If FST built the motor it sounds like you may want to contact them and see if there is a warranty or such that will cover their work.


I second this.


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## carms_2 (Jul 21, 2010)

kdixer said:


> You are right, but he said the starter turns as if it has no load and something kept spinning after the engine stopped. That sounds like the inertia of the flywheel kept it spinning for a few seconds after the engine stopped. And the starter gear turns the crankshaft via the flywheel. So if the flywheel is spinning on the crank, the starter will not turn the crank. And since the ignition timing is off the bike will not pull start either.
> 
> Valvetrain timing does not explain the starter or the spinning noise he heard after the engine died.
> 
> If FST built the motor it sounds like you may want to contact them and see if there is a warranty or such that will cover their work.


Actually it does if the chains broke he would have heard the chains rubbing on the gear till it stopped. This is what he thought sounded like the starter.

What Im saying is the starter would sound like it has no load cause there's no compression. Its just wheeling the pistons around with no compression this why it sounds like its not under load.

When the timing lets go the valves don't operate therefore causing no compression hence is issue with the starter sounding like it has no load.

JJ has already touched on this with VFJ and he agrees that the chains are probably broken.

Glad we could all help guys this is how problems get resolved.


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## brute574 (Aug 10, 2011)

If the valves Aren't Opening, then the Motor Would Lock Up, As the Compression can't get out. But if the Valves Were Bent, then it Could


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

Take the cvt cover off and watch the primary. Then you'll know if the motor is turning over with the starter. I hope you get this figured out. 

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## Roboquad (Sep 8, 2009)

wcs61 said:


> Possibly the torque limiter or starter gear? Woodruff key? I doubt it unless the drag you feel is the key hanging on the groove when it rotates by when pulling the rope start.


if you sheer the woodruff key the bike will jump time and bend valves or pop a chain causing all kinds of he!! to break loose. either way you are going to have to take things apart till you find it...compression test firs, leak down next. at least this will give you some direction. Sorry bout the bad luck brother...


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## brute574 (Aug 10, 2011)

JJB said:


> I'm assuming the "woodruff" key is the flywheel key?
> 
> I shipped a broken motor (see avatar) to FST. He shipped me back an 840. I installed it, ran it, jetted, ran it, jetted, ran it, jetted...you get the point. Now last night, just when I think I'm done with the jetting work...start it...pop...cuss...yell, etc. So I'm assuming the "woodruff" key was in it when it left PA.
> 
> If this is anything more than a flywheel key, I hope you guys are needing some pampered, as in never seen water or mud, parts because if it is I'm parting out, cutting my loses, and trying another brand. Team green has not been kind to me.


Where you From?


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## kdixer (Apr 14, 2010)

Roboquad said:


> if you sheer the woodruff key the bike will jump time and bend valves or pop a chain causing all kinds of he!! to break loose. either way you are going to have to take things apart till you find it...compression test firs, leak down next. at least this will give you some direction. Sorry bout the bad luck brother...


The flywheel woodruff key has nothing to do with timing chains.

Just take the pull start off and try the electric starter. If the hub behind the pull starter turns, it is not the fywheel. If it does not turn, it is flywheel related. That is the quickest, easiest way since it is only 4 bolts to remove the pull start.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

JJB, I though going "Internal" like you said, the brute would have the same reliability as a stock one:thinking:... Hope you can it fixed though, or if you don't want to then the sell the dang thing already.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Ok, Its re-opened. Lets keep the fires down.


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## bluebrute750 (Sep 9, 2011)

JJB said:


> The rope is hard to get going just like normal, hence I said it had compression, but once it starts moving something changes and then there is very little resistance and the motor does not sound like it is turning over. The electric starter spins like there is no load on it.....BUT...and this is the strange thing...I can hear/feal air coming out of the catch can vent and exhaust.
> 
> Could the starter be only partially engaging the flywheel?


Could be the one way starter clutch.... The pull rope would still turn the crank as your saying If the one way clutch went out. 


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

Results: no valve train movement in either cylinder when I turn the crank.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

tx_brute_rider said:


> JJB, I though going "Internal" like you said, the brute would have the same reliability as a stock one:thinking:... Hope you can it fixed though, or if you don't want to then the sell the dang thing already.


Really? You equate broken cam chains or sheared keyways to larger pistons? I suppose that can and never happens to standard bore machines? 

Please only reply if you have something constructive to add.


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## kdixer (Apr 14, 2010)

JJB said:


> Results: no valve train movement in either cylinder when I turn the crank.


 
What method did you use to turn the crank to check this?

I would find it really odd that both front and rear timing chains would let go at the same exact time. But I suppose the intermediate chain could have let go. If it is in fact tiing chain related, I am confused with the spin down noise you heard.


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## Roboquad (Sep 8, 2009)

I have only heard of one guy doing it, but yes it will throw time and possibly bend valves. It is a small 1/2 moon shape key on the crank, stator side. I would lean more to the gears on the flywhwel. Those teeth went somewhere if they did indeed break. Have you pulled the side cover yet?. I am curious now to see what it was.... Guessing maby the inner time chain jumped after being hit by broken parts. But that's just my opinion. You have to pull it to know. Not hard just lots of bolts...


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## Roboquad (Sep 8, 2009)

kdixer said:


> The flywheel woodruff key has nothing to do with timing chains.
> 
> Just take the pull start off and try the electric starter. If the hub behind the pull starter turns, it is not the fywheel. If it does not turn, it is flywheel related. That is the quickest, easiest way since it is only 4 bolts to remove the pull start.


Uuummmm.....If it jumped time it will...
 not saying that's what happened, but there is another well known guy that threw a chain due to the key sheering off.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

kdixer said:


> What method did you use to turn the crank to check this?
> 
> I would find it really odd that both front and rear timing chains would let go at the same exact time. But I suppose the intermediate chain could have let go. If it is in fact tiing chain related, I am confused with the spin down noise you heard.


Rachet on the primary bolt.


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## kdixer (Apr 14, 2010)

Roboquad said:


> Uuummmm.....If it jumped time it will...
> not saying that's what happened, but there is another well known guy that threw a chain due to the key sheering off.


Might still be worth checking the flywheel then. That might indicate what caused the timing chain to fail.

There are 4 chains in total. One from crank to intermediate shaft. One from the intermediate shaft to each camshaft. And a 4th from the crank to the oil pump. If both front and rear valve train is not working it is likely the chain from the crank to the intermediate shaft.

Hopefully your engine builder will stand behind his work. Especially since you questioned the integrity of the chains during the build and were advised against them.


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## Roboquad (Sep 8, 2009)

agreed ^


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## Four Stroke Tech (Sep 16, 2011)

I have been getting some negitive feed back from here and KR's over this so I'm here to give a little info on this. 

I got this motor in as you know with two broken valves. As the customer read stuff on KR's he had some concerns about weather he should replace the rod bearings and cam chains. I said yes we can go into the bottom end and make it all new. He asked me how much it would cost and I told him "about $700". He didn't want to do that so we only did the top end. I took a real good look at the cam chains (front and rear) which are the only one's you can see from the top end only. I also felt the rods as I slowley turned the motor over looking for kind snug feelings. Everything felt great. He asked me what I would do and I told him that "it is ALWAYS best to go in and replace everything." I told him I could not see any reason that he had to do it,it was just better to do it. When I put the motor together I know the jack shaft chain wasn't streched because the cam timing was perfect. Now we believe that the jack shaft chain is broke.

So those are the facts,I offered him some help because I don't like to see these kind of thing happen,not because it's my fault,but because it's just good business. I'll leave it at that,but there is more to the story but I'm not going there.


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

bluebrute750 said:


> Could be the one way starter clutch.... The pull rope would still turn the crank as your saying If the one way clutch went out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just another thought!

After reading these post again I'm wondering if the starter gear was still engaged when he opened the throttle and possibly ruined the starter just as the engine died from other reason's. Have you taken the starter off yet? Never had to replace a starter yet myself but they are small and do not like kickback.


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Four Stroke Tech said:


> I have been getting some negitive feed back from here and KR's over this so I'm here to give a little info on this.
> 
> going there.


Info received and short cut noticed. Some do not have $700 to spare.
Enough said so lets continue to figure this one out.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

Four Stroke Tech said:


> I have been getting some negitive feed back from here and KR's over this so I'm here to give a little info on this.
> 
> I got this motor in as you know with two broken valves. As the customer read stuff on KR's he had some concerns about weather he should replace the rod bearings and cam chains. I said yes we can go into the bottom end and make it all new. He asked me how much it would cost and I told him "about $700". He didn't want to do that so we only did the top end. I took a real good look at the cam chains (front and rear) which are the only one's you can see from the top end only. I also felt the rods as I slowley turned the motor over looking for kind snug feelings. Everything felt great. He asked me what I would do and I told him that "it is ALWAYS best to go in and replace everything." I told him I could not see any reason that he had to do it,it was just better to do it. When I put the motor together I know the jack shaft chain wasn't streched because the cam timing was perfect. Now we believe that the jack shaft chain is broke.
> 
> So those are the facts,I offered him some help because I don't like to see these kind of thing happen,not because it's my fault,but because it's just good business. I'll leave it at that,but there is more to the story but I'm not going there.


Mickey - a reply to my last email Sunday would have been appreciated but since you chose to start here I guess I will too. 

I have purposely been holding back my side of this in hopes that you would come around and help me out like you stated. Again, I appologize if you took my email the wrong way, but after the warning I got from you on the phone last week about "talking about stuff on the internet" I was just letting you know that I would do that if you chose not to help me. I was not "threatening" you. I was simply putting that out there so you would not be surprised to read it and get pissed off at me again. I had no idea you would react the way you did and tell me you were done helping me. 

And again, regarding the thing that got you pissed off initially, I guess, the bearing installation, all I asked for was an explanation of price now vs. price when you had my motor before. That's it. Maybe the numbers add up and make sense, but to me they didn't. I don't think that's a lot to ask out of a guy who has spent thousands with you and who is looking at spending a thousand more (with shipping).

So, as I stated in my email, I would like to call you and talk about this in person, man to man, not over emails and forumns where context and tone can be taken the wrong way. I will call you around 5 eastern today and extend an olive branch and hopefully we can get back on the right track with getting my motor fixed. 

Thank you.


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## Four Stroke Tech (Sep 16, 2011)

wcs61 said:


> Info received and short cut noticed. Some do not have $700 to spare.
> Enough said so lets continue to figure this one out.


That may be so,but that is the customers choice to not do it the best way. You can't go back and blaim the builder because the customer made the choice not to go into the bottom end. I made it very clear that the BEST thing to do is go in and replace everything.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

And there is no need to drag it out here any longer either then.

Thread locked. If the OP still needs help from our members getting it running let me know and I'll clean & unlock the thread.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

Wanted to give you all an update on what I found. Looks like the intermediate chain snapped.

What are the chances the valves are not damaged?

Thanks everyone for the help/theories/input.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

That's the one thing that has always bugged me about Brute engines..way too many chains...and tentioners...and sprockets...


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

nmkawierider said:


> That's the one thing that has always bugged me about Brute engines..way too many chains...and tentioners...and sprockets...


And way too many threads about them breaking, jumping, etc.


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