# Hid's - need help



## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

Install hides on my brute and they worked but were not wired with a relay because I was told it wasn't needed. When I turned it on without the bike running only the left came on and it was weak but when I had the bike running they both came on but were flickering. 

So I installed a relay and now have no lights at all. I tested the relay and its all hooked up right and sending power but no lights. 


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## walker (Apr 5, 2009)

you have to keep them on for the 1st time for 10 minutes . they flicker for a little while then stop


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## brutemike (Mar 23, 2010)

Onethej said:


> Install hides on my brute and they worked but were not wired with a relay because I was told it wasn't needed. When I turned it on without the bike running only the left came on and it was weak but when I had the bike running they both came on but were flickering.
> 
> So I installed a relay and now have no lights at all. I tested the relay and its all hooked up right and sending power but no lights.
> 
> ...


Sounds to me like you don't have enough juice in the battery.Try starting it let it run for a min then try them.Mine does that when I run the winch a good bit at nite.


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## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

I left them on for 15min before I installed the relay for the break in period. I ran it all day without them on and then tried them and still didn't work. I'm wondering if they didn't get a good break in burn because of the flickering during the break in before the relay was installed. 


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## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

Just don't know if that would ruin the bulb or ballast. 


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## browland (Apr 4, 2009)

Onethej said:


> Just don't know if that would ruin the bulb or ballast.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Neither will be ruined, what did you look at on here when you wired them up? How do you know they are wired up properly? Are you judging that by the clicking noise you hear when the switch is turned on or by shooting the wire with a meter when power is applied? If you actually have power leaving the relay when the switch is turned on and getting voltage to the ballast then you need to check ground and then ballast. . Are you running a inline fuse to the ballast? If so check that. What is your power supply ? Battery or a wire that's hot with ignition?


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## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

Power supply is battery. Relay is operating when switch is flipped. No inline fuse.

http://forum.highlifter.com/tm.aspx?m=3378682&high=hid+lights

That is the site that hidsrus.com sent me as instructions.

Have not check voltage at ballast yet. 

Relay is grounded to battery along with negative from both ballasts. 


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## browland (Apr 4, 2009)

Onethej said:


> Power supply is battery. Relay is operating when switch is flipped. No inline fuse.
> 
> http://forum.highlifter.com/tm.aspx?m=3378682&high=hid+lights
> 
> ...


The relay is wired wrong on this one. I used this same " how to" the first time I did the mod. I had to change up two wires on the relay. I'll mock up a relay this afternoon as it is in that thread and figure out which wires I swapped going by that thread




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## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

I know he said the same pin for ground and activating. I just test lighted the relay and figured that part out but yea if you could it could be something I am doing. Going to run a wire straight to ballast from battery and test that part individually


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## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

I know he said the same pin for ground and activating. I just test lighted the relay and figured that part out but yea if you could it could be something I am doing. Going to run a wire straight to ballast from battery and test that part individually


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2012)

Not overly familiar with HID's but sounds like insufficient ground or relay is hooked up backwards. testing voltage will tell you nothing except that there's not a dead short. you can have 12v all day long but without the right amperage they won't work. Your relay has a low amp side which triggers a high amperage switch in the relay. Make sure you have the right gauge wire coming from the relay to the lights to handle the amps. A relay does not produce amperage incidentally, it is nothing more than a remote switch so you don't have to run heavy gauge wire all the way to the switch. Hope this helps.


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## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

Goodtimes said:


> Not overly familiar with HID's but sounds like insufficient ground or relay is hooked up backwards. testing voltage will tell you nothing except that there's not a dead short. you can have 12v all day long but without the right amperage they won't work. Your relay has a low amp side which triggers a high amperage switch in the relay. Make sure you have the right gauge wire coming from the relay to the lights to handle the amps. A relay does not produce amperage incidentally, it is nothing more than a remote switch so you don't have to run heavy gauge wire all the way to the switch. Hope this helps.



I used a 40amp relay and the wires are the same wires we use to wire up 480v cabinets at work for heavy equipment. They handle like 300amp. Not sure on high and low. This one has 4 prongs and a PIN numbers 30,85,86,and87. It's a common relay for horns and aux lights from autozone. 


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm not 100% sure about this but I am not sure it's a good idea to pull max amps across a 40 amp relay. Probably overheat relay. You are for sure going to fry those lights w/o appropriate rated fuse running that wire unless there thermally protected which there again may be your problem-a thermoswitch. Like I said I am not that familiar w/ HID' s.


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## browland (Apr 4, 2009)

Onethej said:


> I used a 40amp relay and the wires are the same wires we use to wire up 480v cabinets at work for heavy equipment. They handle like 300amp. Not sure on high and low. This one has 4 prongs and a PIN numbers 30,85,86,and87. It's a common relay for horns and aux lights from autozone.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Goodtimes said:


> I'm not 100% sure about this but I am not sure it's a good idea to pull max amps across a 40 amp relay. Probably overheat relay. You are for sure going to fry those lights w/o appropriate rated fuse running that wire unless there thermally protected which there again may be your problem-a thermoswitch. Like I said I am not that familiar w/ HID' s.


the relay and wiring will be fine. I wired up each ligh on a relay. I have done this to several bikes now and have no issues other than the relays from autozone being cheap as hell. Go to advanced when you have to replace them from getting water in them, they have sealed relays. I didnt get to look at the wiring on mine today and im sorry , I had to take my oldest to the hospital and she has been admitted so It may be in the morning when I go home I can take a picture and just tell you how to wire it. Ill try to get you hooked up


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2012)

browland said:


> the relay and wiring will be fine. I wired up each ligh on a relay. I have done this to several bikes now and have no issues other than the relays from autozone being cheap as hell. Go to advanced when you have to replace them from getting water in them, they have sealed relays. I didnt get to look at the wiring on mine today and im sorry , I had to take my oldest to the hospital and she has been admitted so It may be in the morning when I go home I can take a picture and just tell you how to wire it. Ill try to get you hooked up


Yeah and I'm not trying to argue, just trying to help and I'm not questioning the relay except for the possibility of it being hooked up wrong. You can have 10 relays on 1 light if you so desire. No reason to run more than one relay but certainly wont hurt. Under normal circumstances you'll be fine but if you run wire rated for 300A ( doesn't sound right but that's what was said) to lights rated for 40A *without fuse protection* and you get a short in the system or a power surge it can fry the lights and or the relay. It's like running 60A stove wire to a 15/20A rated kitchen light. Will it work? Absolutley but you better put a 15/20A breaker or you will have one hell of a bonfire if you get a loose ground or any type of short. It's just not a good Idea. More is not better unless protected and even still is not a common practice. You really should run the correct rated wire that is fuse protected. As far as the relay is concerned it has a diagram on the side of it that tells you what's what. If you don't know what you are looking at when you look at the diagram do a web search. There's plenty of info on relay diagrams.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2012)

Make sure you have your relay hooked up like this. 
pin 30 = wire from battery with correct amp rating for lights and idealy an inline fuse at correct rating definitely not bigger. 
pin 87 = power output wire to the lights with correct amp rating. 
pin 85 = low amperage ground
pin 86 = low amperage power from switch of some sort (ign. battery, etc)

Hope this helps


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## browland (Apr 4, 2009)

Goodtimes said:


> Yeah and I'm not trying to argue, just trying to help and I'm not questioning the relay except for the possibility of it being hooked up wrong. You can have 10 relays on 1 light if you so desire. No reason to run more than one relay but certainly wont hurt. Under normal circumstances you'll be fine but if you run wire rated for 300A ( doesn't sound right but that's what was said) to lights rated for 40A *without fuse protection* and you get a short in the system or a power surge it can fry the lights and or the relay. It's like running 60A stove wire to a 15/20A rated kitchen light. Will it work? Absolutley but you better put a 15/20A breaker or you will have one hell of a bonfire if you get a loose ground or any type of short. It's just not a good Idea. More is not better unless protected and even still is not a common practice. You really should run the correct rated wire that is fuse protected. As far as the relay is concerned it has a diagram on the side of it that tells you what's what. If you don't know what you are looking at when you look at the diagram do a web search. There's plenty of info on relay diagrams.


OH SNAP !! 
Thanks for setting me straight here, interesting synopsis I must add.
Judging by the previous read you really have been having some GOODTIMES.

Allow me to reiterate, I obviously didnt explain clearly in my previous post.
Im going to naturally assume this guy isnt using 0/4 gauge wiring for these lights. Chances are he is using a romex 12-2 or maybe 14-2/3. I did state that the thread he followed to perform this mod and installation was incorrect on the wiring of the relay. The guy drives you to terminate 2 each of the wires to the incorrect terminal posts of the relay. And you are absolutely right , you can run 10 relays on 1 light, if you know how to wire them , not sure why you would want to or where that even originated from , but I choose to use 2 each relays, one for each ballast / light. Not out of necessity, but out of logic. 1 each relay, for 2 lights... What happens if MR relay decides it doesnt like the mud and water any more? I bet both lights take a nap. Call me crazy I know. But if you decide to take the alternative route and and use 2 relays , you just increased your light availabilty by 50 % if one relay goes out . I like those odds. 

As far as the rating on these kits go I think they have a working current of about 4.2A on a 55w system at 9-16 VDC input. The result is a relatively low draw on the bikes charging system. Those silly ballasts do all the work , which by the way have self protection: short circuit, open circuit protection built in . Along with an inline fuse just for sheits and grins. That being said, theoretically, the wire diameter used can be 16-18AWG depending on how long the run is. 

Just to touch base on your stove wiring to the kitchen light theory, you have it backwards, you wouldnt use that same small diameter wiring used for lighting to run your mommas stove, as the load drawn would exceed and more than likely heat up the wire so much it would break anyway. But on the flip side , using the ole stove wiring thats much larger and capable of high current loads, on the kitchen light, will never get hot, never trip the old circuit breaker. And tranfer every bit of electrical energy that light can consume. So more is better, in that case. Do a little research on american wire gauging and basic electricity. You will see why industry tries to use the smallest wire they can use efficiently and without fire hazard. 

Id say you hit that nail right on the head previously when you stated you didnt know that much about these kits. Thats probably where I would have put the period and stopped. If you would like me to instruct you on a "how To" send me a PM.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2012)

Hey man apparently I have ruffled your feathers and that was not my intent. That's the problem with text, it loses something in the translation. Having said that what is the argument here? I don't make assumptions about anything. I was certain that he was not using 300A wire as I stated but why would I assume that he is using 12/2 (20A) or 14/2 (15A) when he clearly said, and I am paraphrasing, "I used 480v 300a that we use to wire heavy equipment. That's not enough info to assume anything. My point was this and I will step out of the way. I have seen people do some crazy stuff in my time (which apparently
I am twice your age based on the "Oh snap!!" intro) so nothing surprises me. Furthermore I would rather waste a $0.20 fuse than take a chance on blowing my more expensive ballast (just cheap insurance). Now as far as the relays go they are simple electromagnetic switches that *very rarely* go out unless of course you use a relay designed for automotive applications as opposed to a sealed unit designed for off road applications, but as I stated earlier it will not hurt anything to use two relays (one for each light). The thread does not state that he was wiring replacement HID headlights it simply says wiring HID lights so in hind sight I can see your logic here. 
Now lets address the wire size issue. True enough, using under rated wire is bad esp. if you have an over rated fuse as it will burn up in a heart beat and that's understood. I also understand that the lights are only going to draw their specified amps regardless of wire size but what happens if I use wire that is rated for 60 times more amps without appropriate fuse or breaker protection and you have a power surge. The weakest link will fry. These lights are rated as you stated at 4.2 amps. The relay is rated at 40 amps and the wire even at 15 amps is capable of delivering almost 4 times the rated amps. What, my friend is the weakest link here? That is why, Mr. tech adviser, (if we are going to use logic as opposed to assumptions) he should most definitely get a loan from the bank and splurge to buy a $5 inline fuse to protect his investment. 
Now since you feel the need to be rude to someone you don't even know (which is immature and uncalled for even if I am dead wrong) the appropriate word is analogy, not synopsis. Do a little research yourself in Webster's dictionary. As far as the Goodtimes insinuation well... I hope there is no hard feelings between us as forums are designed to help others and to learn; not chest beating and pissing matches. In closing I hope all is well with your child that has been admitted to the hospital.


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## Mudslinger800x (Oct 11, 2012)

Soooooooo...... How boat them cowboys?


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2012)

Hail to the Redskins!!!!


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## browland (Apr 4, 2009)

Goodtimes said:


> Hey man apparently I have ruffled your feathers and that was not my intent. That's the problem with text, it loses something in the translation. Having said that what is the argument here? I don't make assumptions about anything. I was certain that he was not using 300A wire as I stated but why would I assume that he is using 12/2 (20A) or 14/2 (15A) when he clearly said, and I am paraphrasing, "I used 480v 300a that we use to wire heavy equipment. That's not enough info to assume anything. My point was this and I will step out of the way. I have seen people do some crazy stuff in my time (which apparently
> I am twice your age based on the "Oh snap!!" intro) so nothing surprises me. Furthermore I would rather waste a $0.20 fuse than take a chance on blowing my more expensive ballast (just cheap insurance). Now as far as the relays go they are simple electromagnetic switches that *very rarely* go out unless of course you use a relay designed for automotive applications as opposed to a sealed unit designed for off road applications, but as I stated earlier it will not hurt anything to use two relays (one for each light). The thread does not state that he was wiring replacement HID headlights it simply says wiring HID lights so in hind sight I can see your logic here.
> Now lets address the wire size issue. True enough, using under rated wire is bad esp. if you have an over rated fuse as it will burn up in a heart beat and that's understood. I also understand that the lights are only going to draw their specified amps regardless of wire size but what happens if I use wire that is rated for 60 times more amps without appropriate fuse or breaker protection and you have a power surge. The weakest link will fry. These lights are rated as you stated at 4.2 amps. The relay is rated at 40 amps and the wire even at 15 amps is capable of delivering almost 4 times the rated amps. What, my friend is the weakest link here? That is why, Mr. tech adviser, (if we are going to use logic as opposed to assumptions) he should most definitely get a loan from the bank and splurge to buy a $5 inline fuse to protect his investment.
> Now since you feel the need to be rude to someone you don't even know (which is immature and uncalled for even if I am dead wrong) the appropriate word is analogy, not synopsis. Do a little research yourself in Webster's dictionary. As far as the Goodtimes insinuation well... I hope there is no hard feelings between us as forums are designed to help others and to learn; not chest beating and pissing matches. In closing I hope all is well with your child that has been admitted to the hospital.


Sup cap? 

I doubt I'm half your age . And you haven't seen rude . In fact the nice guy here would like to invite you to the ride in Texas on the 15th , it's going to be a blast. 

As far as the rest of the crap on here ... 
I don't need need to reply on it . Not on the forum at least . 




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## Guest (Oct 31, 2012)

Well I guess that's that. I am certainly not interested in making enemies on this site. I was just trying to help Onethej figure out his problem with the info I had is all. That's what's so great about forums. Bouncing ideas, right or wrong, and civilly finding an answer. Hope y'all have a great ride in Texas. Where in Texas? Is it an event or buddies getting together? 

Onethej best of luck figuring out your problem. I hope you follow up and let us know.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2012)

Incidentally if 4.2 amps is all they pull ditch the relays. You don't need em.


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## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

Ok update. Installed inline 20amp fuse on battery side. Wired the relay up correctly and they work great!!! Didn't mean to cause an argument. I became a member to toss ideas and problems between fellow off roadies. Thus site has help me so much and is my go to for issues or new purchases. Thanks guys they work great even with the overkill wiring.









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## Guest (Nov 1, 2012)

Good deal. If you don't mind my asking , how was it wired wrong? 

Sorry for my part in the argument. They look awesome!


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## walker (Apr 5, 2009)

glad you got it fixed


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## Onethej (Sep 16, 2012)

I went by the instructions from hidsrus.com and they had the activation and output posts switched. 


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## Mr.Scruffy (Jun 25, 2012)

Wow. That was scary. I thought I was on the wrong forum for a second there. I hate electrical problems!!!


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## mmelton005 (Oct 12, 2011)

Mr.Scruffy said:


> I hate electrical problems!!!


Same here, but thank goodness most of the time they are easy fixes once you figure them out.


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