# To all twisted custom owners



## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

If you feel like you have been ripped off or treated unfairly by mark or anyone at TC please do as i and a fellow rider have done and file a gievance with better business beareau (www.bbb.org) i have done this cause i feel i was sold a product that is unusable, i have lost a lot of hours of riding and a lot of money. he wont help a fellow member exchange axles after he admitted to him he should of never sold the lift with stock cv. so if you feel like you been ripped off please file a complaint and lets hope we can get are money back or at least get him to give us a new lift with his "turner axles"


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## filthyredneck (Feb 10, 2010)

I think this is a good idea.... should've been done a long time ago.


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

yeah i kow, but when your trying to be nice and give someone a chance you dont think of it you get me, but the being nice stage is over.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Good luck to both of you! I hope you at very least get your money back!


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## backwoodsboy70 (Oct 26, 2010)

My brother cancelled payment to mark thru the credit company and mark called my brother harrassing him saying hes gonna take hime to court


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## Crawfishie!! (Dec 9, 2009)

Personally, I wouldn't bring a skateboard for TC to work on, none the less buy ANY product they offer. Mark is a crook, rip off, his products SUCK, and most of all....he's a 2 faced liar! He's screwed over 2 other people I know personally, filthy... you know who I'm talking about, and it's just not right. I say slam him butt on the ground and hire an atty. He will NOT refund your money!!


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Well the BBB doesn't mess around. I got screwed bigtime. Can't even use my bike. I had to spend so much money just getting it back to where I can ride it


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Crawfishie!! said:


> Personally, I wouldn't bring a skateboard for TC to work on, none the less buy ANY product they offer. Mark is a crook, rip off, his products SUCK, and most of all....he's a 2 faced liar! He's screwed over 2 other people I know personally, filthy... you know who I'm talking about, and it's just not right. I say slam him butt on the ground and hire an atty. He will NOT refund your money!!


Please foward this message to those guys. Power in numbers my friends.


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

I will post this for the several others on XMM forum that have had issues with TC


Sent from my iPhone 4 while I shoulda probably been working...


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## Crawfishie!! (Dec 9, 2009)

He's had a friend of mine bike for over a year now "fixing it"! What the heck ever man!! 7 times he's driven to spring, Tx to pick his bike up...get it home and something else is broken on it or Jerry rigged. The 7" lift he got from TC is junk. He's NEVER ridden the bike for more than 10 min total in a year and the struts and axles break? Come on, get with the darn program man! Take him BACK to court, get your money, quit getting lied to, and find a different place to get your shot fixed! (that's what I told him).


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## Crawfishie!! (Dec 9, 2009)

I will re-post this on several different web sights I'm on: deepsouthdepthfinders.com, can am forum, can am talk....Etc etc etc


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

yeah post this every and any where you can, backwood mark actually had called me and told me about your brother canceling the payment and told me he was taking you to court idk what happen but he called to tell me that. i want my money back i dont even want new stuff any more, how the heck does the a-arm itself break? are you serious


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

Polaris425 said:


> Good luck to both of you! I hope you at very least get your money back!


 
thanks a lot sir


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## filthyredneck (Feb 10, 2010)

Crawfishie!! said:


> Personally, I wouldn't bring a skateboard for TC to work on, none the less buy ANY product they offer. Mark is a crook, rip off, his products SUCK, and most of all....he's a 2 faced liar! He's screwed over 2 other people I know personally, filthy... you know who I'm talking about, and it's just not right. I say slam him butt on the ground and hire an atty. He will NOT refund your money!!


Yep, last I heard they'll probably be at River Run when I am.... I'll let em know.


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Crawfishie!! said:


> He's had a friend of mine bike for over a year now "fixing it"! What the heck ever man!! 7 times he's driven to spring, Tx to pick his bike up...get it home and something else is broken on it or Jerry rigged. The 7" lift he got from TC is junk. He's NEVER ridden the bike for more than 10 min total in a year and the struts and axles break? Come on, get with the darn program man! Take him BACK to court, get your money, quit getting lied to, and find a different place to get your shot fixed! (that's what I told him).


Wow! Did he break the HD axles?


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## Crawfishie!! (Dec 9, 2009)

Axles, struts, SEVERAL engine components. Asked mark to rebuild his engine...let's do a 840 kit...psh what ever!! Like I said this gas been going on for well over a YEAR!! I'd have to whoop his *** then take legal action. I just don't have the patience that this guy does when it comes to my hard earned money. Fix it right THE FIRST TIME if you want my money...that's my motto!!!!


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## oldmanbrute (Apr 15, 2009)

This is like those lawyer commericals you see on tv.

_"Have you had a hip/knee replacement that failed.... well you could be entitled to a financial reimbursement. Just call the Lawyers at ........"_

Just foolin w/ya.... but this guy must have known early on his product was crap with all these failures. Should have quit making it or find a fix!

Hope all ya get things worked out.


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## LM83 (Jul 23, 2010)

Crawfishie!! said:


> Axles, struts, SEVERAL engine components. Asked mark to rebuild his engine...let's do a 840 kit...psh what ever!! Like I said this gas been going on for well over a YEAR!! I'd have to whoop his *** then take legal action. I just don't have the patience that this guy does when it comes to my hard earned money. Fix it right THE FIRST TIME if you want my money...that's my motto!!!!


Lol and now Mark won't even answer his calls to come pick up his engine parts for his 7th rebuild....smh.


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## brute for mud (Jul 15, 2010)

the only thing i blew up 7 times was my yz 80 and i raced it im glad i did not go with a lift from him


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## poporider2011 (Jul 27, 2011)

who is TC? or mark?


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## abthis01 (Jun 7, 2011)

Idiots like this make it more and more difficult for "us" real small business owners that actually care about there products and customers. 

Get off your lazy *** and finish the jobs, something breaks-fix it, real easy.....you know its not Rocket Science or brain surgery!


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

TC = Twisted Customs

Mark = Owner of Twisted Customs


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## the grizzly muder (Dec 24, 2009)

jctgumby said:


> TC = Twisted Customs
> 
> Mark = Owner of Twisted Customs


to me they both stand for FAILS


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Well I did some more research, looks like someone already filed a BBB complaint with him and he never responded to it! So his company has an F under the BBB ratings...

http://www.bbb.org/houston/Business...mic-signs-twisted-atvs-in-spring-tx-90019779/


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## LM83 (Jul 23, 2010)

the grizzly muder said:


> to me they both stand for FAILS


Epic fails


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## eagleeye76 (May 7, 2010)

TC = Total Con


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## JPs300 (Mar 23, 2011)

Sucks for many of you guys for sure. 

The BBB really doesn't do or mean much though, he(Mark) could switch his "F" rating to an "A+" simply by sending some money to the BBB. - Ya'll need to take legal action if you want to get anywhere with this. 

Side note: I'm not sure how he could build a complete kit with Turner axles for only $2400. The axles alone in Turner's stand HD axle(not the newer extreme version) are $1400 + shipping($350 each).


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## rmax (Nov 21, 2009)

*tc lifts*



jrpro130 said:


> Well I did some more research, looks like someone already filed a BBB complaint with him and he never responded to it! So his company has an F under the BBB ratings...
> 
> http://www.bbb.org/houston/Business...mic-signs-twisted-atvs-in-spring-tx-90019779/


about al the BBB can do is issue a rateing for a bussiness they have no means to help reckconsile a problem,i would think your best bet would be to file a cmmplaint with the district attourney office where hes located an talk to your dist att, to see if there might be anyway to turn it federal since the products were sold across state lines, just a thought


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

worst thing is twisted/mark says he sells with and without good axles ok well they all suck we know but now what about all the a arm problems does he sell ones that you have to modify and ones you dont have to modify also.....i mean really, some people would take this further and i dont blame them but then again thats just more work for us riders to have to do then the wrenching we already did.....i dont know what else to say other then whoever reads this dont go the cheapest route because honestly it is gonna cost more in the long run, no i dont own the lift but yes i was going to buy one before they even were out and a guy i ride with sometimes had one and couldnt ever ride with us because of axles axles and more axles how do you break 3 axles in one weekend and you dont even get in the mud or a bind nuff said im wont say anyting else about Total Carnage i promise


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Yea BBB isn't going to work...


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Spread the word on every web site possible and that will hurt worse. You may never get your money back but hit his pocketbook as well.
Oh yeah BBB and FCC are complaint departments of a bygone era.


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

honestly just want to sell mine and be done with the scrap metal sitting in the corner of my garage collecting dust. 

We all know his products won't hold up to the abuse now, and thats all that matters. If I saved someone else the 2 grand then job well done in my eyes. I hope no one else falls for his scheme though. 

So far my LIFT itself has been ok, just not axles. I mean come on...5 axles in an hour (several on MIMB watched all of it happen) and I didn't even hit the mud


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

jrpro130 said:


> Yea BBB isn't going to work...


 
yeah it gonna do nothing and seems no one will buy are lifts so ima fix my axles at a shop and put lift back on i think im not gonna have it just sitting there for nothing.


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Yup, it sucks having 2g basically sitting in the corner of the garage


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

Im glad I don't have an expensive bike to waste money on when someobes parts are crap.. I've learned to appreciate my custom made things. . But seriously, take legal action. Even if you can't get money back everyone in towns gonna know he is a crook and he will lose alot of customers..


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## JPs300 (Mar 23, 2011)

The internet can completely kill his business. If you're not gong to take legal action, then be sure and put his full name and company name on blast on every website/forum that you can. 

If you're going to take legal action(over $2k I would) then play nice until it's settled.


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

id take legal action but dont have the money to blow on a lawyer and then nothing happens anyway, you get me? i blow money on that and it worked for a little and then broke an a-arm i didnt even get to break an axle, but ima fix my axles and put it back on and see what happens, like im not gonna have it just taking up space in my garage


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

I get what you mean now. I thought you spent a bunch of money is why I said that.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

business is for sale now, or you can invest in them so they can make a TV show for discovery channel  Gonna be hard to sue a business that's for sale... haha..


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

wow, where did you see this? I would like to see it!


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## bayou_boy_22 (Mar 13, 2009)

http://houston.craigslist.org/bfs/2534901287.html

This is the Craigslist ad.


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

wow, saw it on 4lugthugs just a min ago

We need to get this settled


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Good luck, fellas. I hope everyone recoups their losses.


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

Are you for real he is selling, wow I can't believe that junk.


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Yuuuup, wow, we really need a class action lawsuit against him now. His actions have spoken that he is selling...tells all rightt there


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## primetime1267 (Aug 31, 2009)

I think everyone should do a repost on craiglist with their ad and describe all of their issues with the company.... [email protected]@!! Def. go post on Highlifter!

I feel bad for ya guys that bought the lifts, just sucks!!


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

its on hl already


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## sloboy (Oct 11, 2010)

flag his ad's on craiglist as a scammer!!!!


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## JPs300 (Mar 23, 2011)

I googled, but haven't found his company(seems twisted customs is a popular name). - Was he smart enough to make it an LLC? 

Ya'll need to put the guy on blast everywhere you possibly can.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

sloboy said:


> flag his ad's on craiglist as a scammer!!!!


haha... yup been doin that myself everytime i see it.


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## J.Tal (Dec 9, 2010)

All we can do now is wonder what we COULD'VE bought from a reputable business. Maybe a std bore AMR kit for me, parts and labor, ready to ride! Or a nice down payment on a 1000 RENEGADE !!:rock-on:


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

JPs300 said:


> I googled, but haven't found his company(seems twisted customs is a popular name). - Was he smart enough to make it an LLC?
> 
> Ya'll need to put the guy on blast everywhere you possibly can.


 


tcatvs dot com the website to look for it on google just type in twisted custom atv it will be the first link up.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

speedman said:


> tcatvs dot com the website to look for it on google just type in twisted custom atv it will be the first link up.


but dont buy anything while your there....



:nutkick: :bigok:


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

J.Tal said:


> All we can do now is wonder what we COULD'VE bought from a reputable business. Maybe a std bore AMR kit for me, parts and labor, ready to ride! Or a nice down payment on a 1000 RENEGADE !!:rock-on:


 

for sure down payment on the rene 1000 in white!!!!! but now im just going to fix my axles and put lift back on cause its not worth just letting it sit inmy garage and take up space


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

I'll let my lift rot in the corner, or someone else can buy it for 500 and i'll cut my losses


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

My BBB complaint:

<table cellpadding="4" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td align="right" valign="top"> 
</td> <td> This product is a 5" lift for a brute force 750 ATV. I purchased for $1458(lift) + $600 (axles) on 2/3/11. I contacted Mark at Twisted Customs about his lift because of his claims of the product. One of my main concerns was breaking cv's/axles. I was assured by Mark that he has ran this lift and not broke anything. So I purchased the lift. I received it several weeks later in a damaged box. I installed the lift, (no instructions included) and I had to buy roughly $28 dollars in more grade 8 bolts because the ones sold to me were not long enough. I had several problems installing the lift, the front shocks do not line up correctly, the a-arm's do not fit properly, the rear tires bow in at the top. I went and rode the lift 2/27/11 and within 20 minutes of riding, I broke the left rear axle. I called Mark and he had me send him my broken axle to inspect it (I paid shipping), and later one was exchanged for me. I then rode on 5/29/11 and broke 5 CV's within an hour. Shortly before my second ride of breaking axles, Twisted Customs came out with a 'new' lift. Offered in 5" or 7" for just a few hundred dollars more than I paid, but this one comes with new "Heavy Duty" axles. I contacted Mark about this, he admitted, "I should have never made these lifts with stock cv's". 
</td></tr></tbody></table>
His response (so you can see how much of an idiot he is)

 First case number ,
twisted Custom Atv sold Mr.Pellegrino a 5" lift kit for his Kawasaki Brute Force 4wheeler on 2/3/11. Mr Pellegrino purchased this lift kit from Mark Mangrum over the phone with the understanding of getting the following products.
complete front and rear a-arms ,upper and lower.
Twisted Custom axle bars (shafts) not complete axles nor HD axles (heavy Duty). The transaction was complete over the phone and the credit card was approved for his purchase. Four days later Mr.Pellegrino asked about our complete axles ,which included our HD axle bars and OEM cv cups again not heavy duty because it was not in his budget.We built the lift kit to his order and delivered the kit as the 2 parties had agreed.
The lift kit does not come with all new complete bolts,it only comes with hardware that the lift kit replaces from factory parts.Mr.Pellegrino and Mark Mangrum stayed in touch with each other through the complete transaction and afterwards aswell. Mr Pellegrino called a few after he installed the kit and went out for the weekend to ride his atv.The following Monday after his ride he called me on my cell phone and expressed he broke a stock OEM cv.i told him to send it back and we would take care of it at no cost to him. He agreed to send back to Twisted Custom Atv.Mark Mangrum recieved the damaged product and repaired ,then shipped back to Mr.Pellegrino.Mark Mangrum followed up with Mr.Pellegrino 4 to 5 days later to make sure everything was ok,He agreed that we stood behind our work and was happy with product.Several months went by and Mr.Pellegrino posted his lift kit for sale on a few atv forums,as a month or two past and he didnt sell his kit he reached out to Mark at TC atv to ask if he would buy it back or help him sell it.Mark at TC atv agreed to help sell the lift kit,after another few weeks Mr.Pellegrino asked about purchasing Heavy Duty axles from Mark.Mark gave him the price of the HD axles and Mr.Pelegrino expressed he would try to come up with the money.To further help Mr.Pellegrino,Mark told him he would sell them at cost and not retail price.3 weeks later Mr.Pellegrino called Mark and said he had his lift kit sold to a person in Louisana and he was asking about the HD axles again.Mark gave Mr.Pellegrino the price for the axles again ,and offered to powder coat the lift kit in a different color if that would help his sell with his customer.The following week the gentleman that was buying the kit from Mr.Pellegrino called Mark at twisted Custom Atv to ask questions about the lift kit.Mark answered all questions that was asked ,the client spoke of the lift kit that Mr.Pellegrino was selling and hes was told that he was getting a Twisted Custom atv 7" kit which Mark explained that the lift kit was a 5" kit.After the conversation the client didn't feel comfortable buying the lift kit from Mr.Pellegrino and wanted a different lift kit. Mark called Mr.Pellegrino after the customer called ,and asked why he had told him that he was buying a 7"lift kit and Mr.Pellegrino said he just wanted to sell the lift kit. Mark at TC atv expressed he would not help sell Mr.Pellegrino lift kit if he was going to mislead customers. Attached is a copy of the transaction reciept of payment for lift kit and second reciept for buying complete axles OEM cv cups not HD axles. 
2nd case 8687308
mr.martinez is asking for a refund on his lift from Twisted Custom Atv.
First,Mr.martinez did not purchase the lift kit from Twisted Custom Atv.He purchased the lift kit from a previous customer of TC atv.Mr Martinez contacted TC atv and spoke with Mark Mangrum about the lift kit and asked for instruction on how to install lift kit.Mark explained how to install kit even though Mr.Martinez didnt purchase lift kit from TC atv. After Mr.Martinez installed lift kit he had seen there was a problem with the front lower a-arm.Mark at TC atv told Mr.Martinez to send product back to TC atv and we would still honor the manufacture warranty on his product even though the warranty only applies to the original purchaser. Mr.Martinez was thankful for TC atv helping with the product . Mr Martinez said he would pay for the shipping of product to TC atv being that TC atv was helping with his problem.the product was fixed and shipped back to Mr.martinez within the same week.Mr Martinez again was thankful for the help and quick turnaround to fix problem.So at this point there is not any reason for a refund when product was not purchased from TC atv. He is only writing a complaint because Mr.Martinez and Mr.Pellegrino are good friends. This is a fraud case and both of them should be removed. Twisted Custom Atv maintains a very good reputation and will always stand behind the products they design.

*Mark Mangrum**
Twisted Custom Atv's
(281)516-7800 office*
*(281)516-7805 Fax**
(281)380-5304 cell
tcatvs.com*

My response:

Better Business Bureau:
I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID 8687325, and have determined that this proposed action would not resolve my complaint. For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
I am not satisfied with this resolution because there are many false statements made in Mark's response. To start off, TC ATV's did not publicly sell complete HD (heavy duty) axle kits at the time of my purchase, nor did they offer HD cv cups. I was told that I could buy axles that "would break my differential" for $800 a piece. The "new" 5" and 7" kit with "Heavy duty axles and CV cups" were just released a few months ago. The only kit available for me to purchase was a 5" kit with axle bars. The kit was designed to use STOCK CV cups. I did not have stock CV cups at the time. I was attempting to buy a used set, but I was scammed by someone selling them. I contacted Mark and he offered to sell me complete axles for $600. HD axle bars and HIS Cv cups (never stated they were STOCK cv cups). He stated that he used these and has never broke one, and to add, several other riders have used them and have not broken them. I expressed my concern about breaking them several times but was re-assured I would "be fine"
I had problems with this lift from the install onward. The A Arms were mislabeled and put on backwards due to the mislabeling. The shocks do NOT fit without prying them into place. Rear tires bow inward at the top. I followed Mark's instructions to a tee, including using 08 shocks on the softest setting as to keep a supposed 28* axle angle. Which might I add was the main selling point of the lift.
I had a problem with the A-Arm bushings, as pictured in the attached file, they were a round smooth bushing with no 'lip' to them. This allowed the a arm to slide front to back and give a very loose sloppy feeling to the lift. I contacted Mark about this and several weeks later recieved new bushings. I was told it must have been a mistake since all the bikes use the same bushings. 
I did NOT break a CV the first ride. I broke a Twisted Customs "HD" axle shaft. The axles were advertised as a lifetime warranty. I had to send my entire axle assembly back to TC atv's for "inspection" as to how it broke. I paid for shipping to TC. It took an unreasonable amount of time to recieve the 'new' axle back. I called several times during this period and was advised that TC was 'very busy'. I was advised several times that I would 'have it soon'.
I DID break 5 CVs the second ride.
Also to add, I have not sold this lift. I had someone interested in the lift, it was CLEARLY said to him (as it is posted in the title of the for sale ad) that it is a 5" kit. He wanted to buy HD axles from Mark but it was unknown to myself and the potential buyer that you have to buy new front control arms as well. This was not stated to me previously. Mark told me $350 per axle. Period.
Mark never contacted me after the proposed purchaser supposedly called him. I have not made telephone contact with Mark for months now.
The "NEW" lifts were created AFTER the purchase of my lift.
The reason that I contacted Mark at Twisted Customs about buying my lift back is simply because at this point in time I can not even sell it for a reasonable price. The new 5" kit with "HD" axles retails for $2499, the purchaser is REQUIRED to spend $1800 just to make the lift useable. That leaves me with $700 in actual lift components, which used will retail for roughly $400. That means that over the course of this entire experience, I am left with a lift that I purchased for over $2000 that is worth $400. I can not sell the axle shafts or CV's because I would not want to sell a product that the owner does not back. Reasoning in paragraph below. 
I contacted Mark months ago about possibly purchasing my lift back. I explained to him that I was unable to sell it because of all the broken CV's and I wouldn't want someone to have the same problems I have had. He CLEARLY stated to me over telephone that "It was a mistake to sell these lifts with oem cv's," and further stated, "I should have never sold them with oem cv's". He agreed to buy my lift back for $1200. He stated that as soon as he had someone who wanted a 5" kit that he would take mine back, re powder coat it and re sell it to someone else. 
I have SMS messaged Mark several times during the last few months asking if anyone has bought a 5" kit and his reply has been, "No", "In canada", "Been sick", or other replies. 
I was later told by Mark, when inquiring prices of axles that I was able to just buy their NEW HD axles (all 4) and new curved front control arms, and I would have a good, reliable lift and likely to not break. This was for the tune of $1800. So I would have to invest $1800 in a lift I already spent over $2000 on, but a new lift costs $2499. 
The right thing to do is split the difference. Accept the OEM cv's and TC axle shafts as a return, and send me the "new HD complete axles" and all other necessary parts to make it a usable lift. 



The resolution to this complaint would be option:
A) Accept a full return of the lift for a full refund of purchase price with pre paid shipping label. The refund would be processed before items shipped.
B) Honor previous verbal agreement of return of lift parts excluding axles and cv's in exhange for $1200, same as above with pre paid shipping label and refund processed before items shipped.



Please do not include other complainant's details or response to their complaint in my complaint. This is highly unprofessional of a business owner accusing a complainant to make claims based on "good" friendship. 



Attached are several pictures including, the broken AXLE SHAFT, brand new broken CV cup, sliding a arm bushings, and chipped powder coat that I recieved upon shipment.
Regards,
Richard Pellegrino


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Cliff notes:

Mark is a LIAR...and for the record...I never EVER misreprisented my lift as a 7"...

The HD CV's were not available at the time of my purchase

I was told by mark to buy his HD axles and new lower control arms for his "discounted price" of $1650

I bought mine for 2064...his new ones are 2399...a real business would have me send back the axles and a arms and send me the new updated things that supposibly don't break....


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## speedman (Nov 3, 2010)

he's a bad liar cause i never called the guy too put my lift on at all, my frustration of the lift not fittting is what made the lift go on. so thats a lie there, yeah i was happy he fixed my a-arm cause he should of fixed it anyways instead of asking me for pictures of the a-arm before sending it out?? and what i found funny him saying i did the complaint cause of jrpro lol


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