# Belt shredding issues



## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

hi yall, my name is alex i have been having belt shredding problems for a few months now on my kawie brute750i. basically i am only getting 20 - 60 miles per belt. im on number three...i bought this used with 1200 miles. looked completely stock. 

at first i made the mistake of buying aftermarket belts. then last two i destroyed were OEM Kawasaki belts. 

It Smells as if it is over heating the belts and just shredding them in half by the looks of it. i will post some pics of the current broken belt. 

Now heres my question. I ripped into the clutch last night to inspect+install my new almond sec. and maroon Pri. So i get this thing open find it has a RED secondary and a what looks to be stock primary by the colorless spring and two paint dabs on it. also i noticed the weights say EPI k56 on them... now im fairly new to this CVT thing. 
but is it right to have a red secondary and k56 weights with a stock primary? 
also it only has 25" Kenda Executioners on it.

Thanks ahead of time for all of your help.
i have a bunch more pics if yall need to see anything else on the clutches.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Yeah red is WAY too much spring for 25" tires. 


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

Polaris425 said:


> Yeah red is WAY too much spring for 25" tires.
> 
> 
> Posted via TapaTalk for iPhone5


i figured this. just needed verification.

so i am going to install the almond sec. and maroon pri. is this ok. and is it ok with the EPI k56 weights i see installed.

attached is a pic of the red i removed compared to the almond i am going to install. and the weights.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

I don't know much about weights. But 56 sounds right. Stock are either 56 or 58. It's posted here on the forum somewhere if you do a search for clutch weights. 

Also make sure your deflection is right. That's important. 


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

I run the 56gram weights with an almond secondary and have used the maroon primary with my 26" tires. You will be fine but..regardless what those guys over on the other site are telling you, you do have some real problems with the sheaves on both clutches. and you will keep going through belts until they are fixed or replaced regardless of springs. But don't just take my word for it-do yourself a big favor and e mail *all* those photos to VFJ (John) at:

[email protected]

and let him tell you his thoughts. He is the master of the v-twin and clutching. If nothing else, there are guys here parting-out Brutes that have good used clutches.

The other thing I wanted to mention was that if those are the older EPI weights without the bushings, they seize on the pins and don't work very well. With your fingers, try and rotate the each pin. If you can't, they are seized. They can be cleaned-up and made to work again for a while but not long. If they are the bushingless weights, do yourself the biggest favor and get rid of them...I did...and they may have been what started all this for you in the first place.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

NMKawierider said:


> I run the 56gram weights with an almond secondary and have used the maroon primary with my 26" tires. You will be fine but..regardless what those guys over on the other site are telling you, you do have some real problems with the sheaves on both clutches. and you will keep going through belts until they are fixed or replaced regardless of springs. But don't just take my word for it-do yourself a big favor and e mail *all* those photos to VFJ (John) at:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> ...


I dont see the email to contact john. I will send him the pics. 
I will also attach the pics i do have for others to see what we are talking about. 

























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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

It's:

[email protected]

[email protected]

I have emailed him the link to this thread.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

NMKawierider said:


> It's:
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> ...


Ive been looking into these sheaves.... Mine look horrible compared to other used ones. 
I think my next move is to buy an entire used primary assembly and new sheaves for the rear. All used. Ebay has some pretty good deals

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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

If you're going to drop the doe anyway, see if VFJ has some used ones laying around he can work his magic on for you.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

Polaris425 said:


> If you're going to drop the doe anyway, see if VFJ has some used ones laying around he can work his magic on for you.


I dont know if i want to drop that much doe. That sounds like a 600$ job right there. 

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---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------

Will a '08 bf 650 secondary and primary fit my '08 bf 750?

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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> Will a '08 bf 650 secondary and primary fit my '08 bf 750?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Yes, they show to be the same part numbers.


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## VFORCEJOHN (Feb 6, 2013)

#1 the primary is grooved beyond repair. this will slip and heat chunk off the top cogs. looks like that lived a hard life on 30 inch tires from that wear. Imagine having a 12 inch wide slick tire (aka the belt) now you're trying to hook up on a 2x4. There's no way for the belt to bend and lay flat so it lays down max surface contact area. So it's going to slip. that makes heat. heat kills belts.

#2 the EPI weights are way too light. stock weights are 63-65 grams pending year for 08 and up. way too curved as well and they let the belt slip and overheat. Heat kills belts.

#3 red secondary is overkill, so is an almond for 25 inch tires. I think you found that out. Those 2 springs are way too long and will bind up and cause speed loss.

To fix it easy spending as little as possible. Get another used primary (that's hard to find these days). Run a stock secondary and run the stock secondary spring, run the epi maroon since you already have it. If not my #1/#4 springs will suit that app just fine. 



650 clutches are a "thin" weight and will weigh 58 grams. they will work fine, but the weighs are different vs the 08 and up 750's (Brute 750 05-07 ran the 650 style clutch). so it could be used with no issues.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks John. He also has a groove in his upper secondary like I have never seen before. Like the belt just sat there and slipped... a lot. Maybe he'll post a pic. There is one on KR.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

VFORCEJOHN said:


> #1 the primary is grooved beyond repair. this will slip and heat chunk off the top cogs. looks like that lived a hard life on 30 inch tires from that wear. Imagine having a 12 inch wide slick tire (aka the belt) now you're trying to hook up on a 2x4. There's no way for the belt to bend and lay flat so it lays down max surface contact area. So it's going to slip. that makes heat. heat kills belts.
> 
> #2 the EPI weights are way too light. stock weights are 63-65 grams pending year for 08 and up. way too curved as well and they let the belt slip and overheat. Heat kills belts.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. I hope this solves my problem

I bought ordered used primary abd a secondary off ebay that look 90 times better than mine with low miles on them. Hopefully they will work. I will keep stock spring in the secondary and install the maroon in the primary. 

Thanks again john. 
And thanks kawierider for sending this to him. 

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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> Thank you so much. I hope this solves my problem
> 
> I bought ordered used primary abd a secondary off ebay that look 90 times better than mine with low miles on them. Hopefully they will work. I will keep stock spring in the secondary and install the maroon in the primary.
> 
> ...


 You are welcome. With a good clutch with the right springs and serviced once in a while, they do last a very long time. You just got someone else's F'up to fix.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

NMKawierider said:


> You are welcome. With a good clutch with the right springs and serviced once in a while, they do last a very long time. You just got someone else's F'up to fix.


So is brake cleaner safe to spray all over the primary when i get it. I want to give it a good cleaning since its used. Same with the secondary. Anything i should do before i mount them? 

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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> So is brake cleaner safe to spray all over the primary when i get it. I want to give it a good cleaning since its used. Same with the secondary. Anything i should do before i mount them?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Should be OK. As long as it leaves absolutely NO residue on the sheave surfaces. I always give mine a final wipe-down with a clean cotton cloth and acetone before installing with the belt. Same for the primary to crank shaft...pure metal to metal..not even a finger print on either surface and it has to be exactly torqued to 69 ftlbs for 05-07 and 68 ftlbs for 08+ Not a pound over or under..well one over is OK but no more. Among other things this sets the center line alignment with the secondary clutch.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

NMKawierider said:


> Should be OK. As long as it leaves absolutely NO residue on the sheave surfaces. I always give mine a final wipe-down with a clean cotton cloth and acetone before installing with the belt. Same for the primary to crank shaft...pure metal to metal..not even a finger print on either surface and it has to be exactly torqued to 69 ftlbs for 05-07 and 68 ftlbs for 08+ Not a pound over or under..well one over is OK but no more. Among other things this sets the center line alignment with the secondary clutch.


As long as the brake cleaner is non-chlorinated is shouldnt leave any residue right? 
I was gonna remove the weights and pins and clean them off to. Think this is necassary? I remember you telling me the pins are suppose to move freely left and right if i remember correctly.

And yes i always torque to spec. Ive had enough problems. 

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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> As long as the brake cleaner is non-chlorinated is shouldnt leave any residue right?
> I was gonna remove the weights and pins and clean them off to. Think this is necassary? I remember you telling me the pins are suppose to move freely left and right if i remember correctly.
> 
> And yes i always torque to spec. Ive had enough problems.
> ...


 Should be fine. Yes, pull the pins and clean ...everything. Use a q-tip to get in the holes ..both the ones on the weights and the clutch. Don't use any lube unless you use dry lube like graphite...and if you do, make darn-sure none can get to the belt. 

One thing I learned- the pin's nuts don't have to be real tight in fact the threads snap off easy so don't go nuts. They have self-lockers in them anyway.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

Got the new/used parts.... One is very muddy. O well. Time to start cleaning. 

They look 90 times better than mine

















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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Way better. If you want to clean them up a bit, use like 800g w/d sand paper on one of those rubber sanding blocks and in circular motions from the spindle to the outer edge go all the way around both sides. Then take some medium steel wool and repolish them. Some people think scratches provide more traction for the belt but the fact is every scratch is a place where there is no contact and its actually easy to loose 10% of your contact with the belt with deep scratches so...think of it like drag cars on the strip...you don't see rough asphalt or knobble tires. Its max rubber contact to road. Same for your clutch. So its more then OK to polish it after the sand paper work.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

NMKawierider said:


> Way better. If you want to clean them up a bit, use like 800g w/d sand paper on one of those rubber sanding blocks and in circular motions from the spindle to the outer edge go all the way around both sides. Then take some medium steel wool and repolish them. Some people think scratches provide more traction for the belt but the fact is every scratch is a place where there is no contact and its actually easy to loose 10% of your contact with the belt with deep scratches so...think of it like drag cars on the strip...you don't see rough asphalt or knobble tires. Its max rubber contact to road. Same for your clutch. So its more then OK to polish it after the sand paper work.


Should get it all back together today. But i still have to bleed the coolant system, change the oil, fix my snorkels up, fix some winch wiring, and weld the front bumper up. hopefully i can get it all done today.

it is amazing how bad my primary really was. now that i have this other one to compare it i can physically see and feel how bad mine was. 

the secondary i got has a raw steel spring with purple paint sprayed down one side. sounds like stock spring to me.. right? i just want to make sure because i am not going to install my almond since John said it is not needed.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> Should get it all back together today. But i still have to bleed the coolant system, change the oil, fix my snorkels up, fix some winch wiring, and weld the front bumper up. hopefully i can get it all done today.
> 
> it is amazing how bad my primary really was. now that i have this other one to compare it i can physically see and feel how bad mine was.
> 
> the secondary i got has a raw steel spring with purple paint sprayed down one side. sounds like stock spring to me.. right? i just want to make sure because i am not going to install my almond since John said it is not needed.


 Yeah, that's a stock spring. Here are what the stock springs look like from my 06.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

NMKawierider said:


> Yeah, that's a stock spring. Here are what the stock springs look like from my 06.


Ok. Perfect

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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

All clean and in with new pins and maroon primary. Almost there.

















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---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 PM ----------

Cleaned in. And almost done.

















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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

How do i keep the secondary from spinning when re installing?

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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Make sure the deflections is between 22 and about 24mm. I say that because the belt looks a little low in the secondary...not that it always means it loose but...check anyway. And double check the direction. It has an arrow and or the Kawasaki printing should be the right direction.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

How do i keep the secondary from spinning when tighting the bolt back on.

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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> How do i keep the secondary from spinning when re installing?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Position a 6" or so ratchet extension between one of the holding posts and the frame or floorboard. If on the floorboard, be over a mount because the plastic may crack. Same torque as the primary.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

Got it thanks. Belt is sitting an 1/8 over the secondary. I took out a .08mm spacer to get it that way. 

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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

Went with the 1mm and the .03 its perfect. Has just a little tiny squeal every now and then. I did notice there is a bigger lag now before the clutch engages. Is that ths maroon primary? Or the stock weights? 

And i noticed thay the back brake is sticking only when i am reversing. And that is no good seeing as i back off my pickup everytime i go riding.... Any idea whats going on there? Seems to roll forward easy ( i can push it in nuetral) but dead stop when i push it backwards.

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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> Went with the 1mm and the .03 its perfect. Has just a little tiny squeal every now and then. I did notice there is a bigger lag now before the clutch engages. Is that ths maroon primary? Or the stock weights?
> 
> And i noticed thay the back brake is sticking only when i am reversing. And that is no good seeing as i back off my pickup everytime i go riding.... Any idea whats going on there? Seems to roll forward easy ( i can push it in nuetral) but dead stop when i push it backwards.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


 The stall is probably the maroon spring. Its about 400 RPMs more then the stock spring.

On the brake, a few..thousand...brutes have had their rear pinion bearing retaining nut back off because of someone in the plant not using the lactate. Need to pop the rear driveline off...it's spring loaded and collapses. The rock it back and forth watching the pinion shaft. If it moves in and out at all or up and down, the retainer is loose. See the brake disks are on that pinion shaft..and it isn't supposed to move other then rotate.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

NMKawierider said:


> The stall is probably the maroon spring. Its about 400 RPMs more then the stock spring.
> 
> On the brake, a few..thousand...brutes have had their rear pinion bearing retaining nut back off because of someone in the plant not using the lactate. Need to pop the rear driveline off...it's spring loaded and collapses. The rock it back and forth watching the pinion shaft. If it moves in and out at all or up and down, the retainer is loose. See the brake disks are on that pinion shaft..and it isn't supposed to move other then rotate.


God ****it... Recall? Haha. That sounds like a pain in the arse to fix. 

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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> God ****it... Recall? Haha. That sounds like a pain in the arse to fix.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Might just be a sticking cable or set too tight. Lets check first. How much play is in the foot peddle? Does it return nice and smooth?

Its not as bad to fix as one might think. You can do it in frame. There's some good info here on doing it and a way not to have to buy the special tool...if needed that is.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

The foot pedal has about two inches before there is any resistance. Then it barley comes.back..

You guus ever get to just ride abd not have to fix ****.. 

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## dman66 (Feb 20, 2011)

I bought my 05 750 roughly in 2011. I fixed all the stuff that needed fixing fro lack of the previous owners maintenance,and this past summer,I have not had to do to much to her.Due to lack of time and money,it took longer than expected to get her back to how things should be,but rode her alot without issues.Oh and the addition to better wheel offset helped greatly.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

Shoud i try and loosen the rear brake or tighten it?

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## dman66 (Feb 20, 2011)

Take the plug out of the diff to check for water,unless u just did a diff fluid change and u know there is no water in there.Then with help,have someone sqeeze the rear brake levers while u watch the rear brake arm move ,or loosen the wing nuts to the rear brake arm on the left rear of the brake assembly. Can u move the brake arm forward and back ?


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

KawieKrizanek said:


> The foot pedal has about two inches before there is any resistance. Then it barley comes.back..
> 
> You guus ever get to just ride abd not have to fix ****..
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


Lol...depends on how it was used in it's past life. Looks like yours was rode-hard and put away..without any oats a few times. Just need to nurse it back to health and she'll be your best friend...like a good horse.

Now mine , although its been pushed most of it life, its never been abused or asked to do something it wasn't designed to do...and its always had everything taken care of before it was really needed. And I am very happy to say in the almost 9 years I have has mine, its never done anything to stop me from going on a ride nor ever failed to bring me back from one.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

So got about 6 miles on it now. Seems allright so far. Just a little belt squeal when in gear at idle. I just go to nuetral when i stop. What is the exhaust suppose smell like...? Just a little rubber smell? I remember when i roasted my last belt it smelt wicked bad when i was riding. Now there.is a very faint rubber smell. Normal.or not?

Cvt exhaust that is. 

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## dman66 (Feb 20, 2011)

U should not really have any belt burn smell. Could be residual from the others u burnt up? Keep an eye on the belt to make sure all is well.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

dman66 said:


> U should not really have any belt burn smell. Could be residual from the others u burnt up? Keep an eye on the belt to make sure all is well.


Thats what i was thinking. Because i burned up 3 before this... Bad. 

Yall agree that a slight belt squeal is ok?

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## dman66 (Feb 20, 2011)

Man U gotta stick to one site with these threads. Yes a little belt squeal in low or high while idling is perfect,but put it in neutral to save ur belt while ur not riding or even sitting there idling.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Yeah the smell is probably from the previous burns and the smell of the new rubber getting warm. If its just a small squeal and isn't trying move forward it just a little tight. Do some full power hill climbs in high range and she should stretch to over 22mm and stop. Do know that its polishing the bottom of the belt in spots and even when its stretched to 22/23mm, it will still squeal on those shiny spots...but some scotch-bright fixes that. For now pop it in neutral when stopped or shut it down is the best advise I can give.


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## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

Well 15 miles in on the new clutches. So far so.... I better nit say anything. 

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