# welding?



## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

So I was making an axle paddle and I have to weld metal to cast aluminum so am I going to need an aluminum welder or just a standard tig welder?


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## kawa650 (Dec 19, 2008)

Im just goin to say it's not going to happen, carbon steel and cast aluminum don't go together well.

But with that said it could be done, with a certain rod and Tig welding. Also with it being cast i don't think it will hold up well after welding on it. It will be a challenge for a good experienced welder!!


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

He is right. You will never get a Good puddle with aluminum. The heat required to bond the 2 will be to hot for the steeL. They are just way to dissimilar and you will contaminate the aluminum and you will get burn out. Hts 2000 is a rod that will work good on the cast aluminum. Give me some good details like pics and I will try to help you find a better way.


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Won't work...we need details of what your trying to do and we can give suggestions.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

Then how do all the people make axle paddles? I could've swore that they said they bought metal and welded it to it.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

http://mistricj.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/axle-paddle-blog.jpg this is what I was trying to do


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

So just out of curiosity why would you want axle paddles and what type of bike? Has to be a straight axle. I think that you are asking for problems.


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

You do not want to weld on the axles you will warp them. And if you don't if you don't heat treat correctly the axle will not last. I still have never understood people doing this. We ride deep water and never would we need this.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

Its more for ruts. And you don't weld it to the axle. You machine the brake drum down and weld it to that. And its a honda 300.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

And polaris425 I posted this one and accidentally hit the back button and I didn't think it posted. So then I posted one in the honda section.


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Looks to me like they removed the rear brakes, manufactured, LMAO, and slid the paddles onto the shaft then reinstalled the two axle nuts to hold the paddles in place. Either way that is not something I would do. Are they claiming a big advantage in having this? Is this some kind of cleats for digging into the hump between ruts?


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

Not in any way trying to be rude. I have a custom fab shop and I get weird request and I try to be honest and tell them it's a bad idea. I believe this is something that you should reconsider. You will actually shoot your self in the foot because straight axles already have a high centering problem and it will be worse when you do this. Just think also about your buddy pushing you out and his foot getting tied up in this. Again just trying to be a voice of reason.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

Yeah, its like another wheel to push you through ruts. It makes it go farther than an irs in ruts. And they just machine the brake drum down.. I would have the info to do it on highlifter but its closed down right now..


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

I was just on high lifter.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

It told me that I was unauthorized to view the forums. And I called a couple friends and they all said the same things.


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Okay then I doubt you need to weld steel to aluminum. Isn't the brake hub steel?


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

No,


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm pretty sure none of the "moving" parts are made out of aluminum... Only the diff housing and possibly the swing arm... Everything else should be steel or cast iron... Which if it's cast iron, welding on t will make it weaker... 

IMO, buy some better tires, and learn what you can or can't make it through... Or get an IRS bike and lift it up... 

My SRA Kodiak will go "most" places my brute will with the tires that are on it...


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

I wouldn't think the brake hub is aluminum. Way to temperature sensitive.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

Im talking about the brake drum. Or do you just call it the brake hub?


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Impact Fab said:


> I wouldn't think the brake hub is aluminum. Way to temperature sensitive.


and subject to rapid wear from the shoe's. I'm out!


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

Maybe its cast iron. But still, how are all these people doing it when you guys saying its not going to hold up? Im not downing y'all cause you all have way more experience with welding than I do but im just tryin to figure this out. Maybe one of the people with one will shed some light on this thread..


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

It can be brazed if it is cast. Do not weld braze it. Where are you located?


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

Pineville, la.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd45/headcutter_bucket/Axle paddle/axlepaddle008.jpg I found a much better picture, and he used iron not steel. So should I use iron?


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

If you look close the inner is splined. Commercial iron is steel. I am out.


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Impact. look here. If this is what type of hub/drum he has I see why he thinks it's aluminum.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hond...ors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item519a1bcc21
It seems to be aluminum hub with steel brake drum insert and steel spline insert press fitted into aluminum hub. Turning means they did away with everything except the spline insert. Then they took possibly 2" x 1/4 angle iron and made the cleats. So austin all you need is to get rid of everything except the splined axle piece and use either a mig, tig, or arc welder and weld your cleats to the spline piece.
Got a magnet? Figure out what is steel and what isn't.
Adios!


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## JPs300 (Mar 23, 2011)

lots of miss-info in here.......


- Many, many, many, many people have put axle paddles on solid axle bikes. Yes, you need to keep feet/legs, etc clear from behind the bike if/when it gets stuck, but they are indeed a big help for keeping the bike moving in thick mud. 

- Honda rear brake drums are a cast aluminum main body, but the spline section that rides on the axle and the braking surface are steel. Thus, you cut it down to the "hub" section, then cut the aluminum off in the lathe to leave just the steel splined section(there are other, more primative methods as well, but you have to get to just the steel splined sleeve piece). 

Beyond that it's up to the "engineer" building it to decide how many paddle blades, how big, and how to reinforce them well enough so as to not bend under load. Obviously, as with any fabrication project, material thickness and surrounding physical constraints need to be accounted for(with the suspension loaded/compressed, how close is the muffler, trunk/frame rail, etc). 


I'm doing a custom swing arm and center paddle on a 300 right now. I'll have build pics and do up a thread as usual in a few weeks. 




HL was stooooopid(like that spelling?) slow yesterday, and seems today is coming up telling most people that their IP address is blocked. Obviously they are having some site issues.


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## bump530 (Jan 5, 2009)

JP, glad you chimmed in lol. i was fixin to start typing till i saw your post lol


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## greenkitty7 (Jan 26, 2011)

it just has always seemed to me that a steel paddle attatched to your axle will tear the hell out of your bike if you ever get high centered on a hard rut.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

^ They are def. bad for axles/bearings/diffs... I guess it's just up to the OP to decide if all that trouble is worth having it.


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## austin82 (May 3, 2011)

Thank you for clearing things up jp! Now I think im ready to do it.


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## JPs300 (Mar 23, 2011)

greenkitty7 said:


> it just has always seemed to me that a steel paddle attatched to your axle will tear the hell out of your bike if you ever get high centered on a hard rut.


The point is you won't be high centered on a hard rut, as the paddle will have kept the bike moving in the first place. There's never a time when the tires are turning w/o it turning, thus if the tires have dug in and can't find traction so has the paddle. 

Yes, it will be harder on bearings, the diff, etc driveline, but I don't see too many people on here worrying about the added drivetrain stress of their outlaws/backs/etc vs their stock 25 or 26 all-terrains.......

Traction is traction, no matter how you acheive it you're increasing the drivetrain stress just the same.


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## gotmuddy (Jul 15, 2011)

I have a *little* experience with paddles on 300 hondas. the drum is cast aluminum, and inside the drum is a steel liner for contact with the shoes. The hub is steel and with a cutting wheel on a grinder and a BFH you can get to the hub in about 5 minutes. When you get the aluminum off the hub you end up with 8 sections that are raised. I grind down into the valleys between them then weld 8 pieces of 5.5 by 2.5 by 3/8" flat stock and weld the hell out of them. never broke one yet.


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

JPs300 said:


> lots of miss-info in here.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Guess a picture is worth a thousand words


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## Bruteforce10 (Jun 25, 2010)

Axle paddles make a huge differance and as far as the welding goes i have this one welded directly to the hub and it has been to hell and back without any trouble. When i was on my brute with tha 32's i had someone follow me on a 300 on 28's and a paddle with less effort than me all because his tires didnt touch the bottom....the paddle pushed him along the rut. 

No, paddles may not be the best on bearings and other things but niether is mud or water.


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

I am glad someone got down to the metal..lol...


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