# Winch cable is energized, WTH?



## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

I used the winch to flip my trailer over for painting, and while i was moving the Brute to a tree to respool the cable, I noticed the cable arcing to my brake lever.  What the ? Is my winch bad? It's a Promark XT 4000lb, if that matters at all. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

constant sparkle or a one time spark?


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

Constant. Move it away, it stops, put it back, sparkles again. This is the second winch i've put on my bike and it's only a year old. I have bad luck with them


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

If it wasn't in spooling in or out at the time, there shouldn't have been any voltage going to the wench anyway. There is another possibility although remote. It could have been your brake cable sparking against your winch cable. Did you check to see if your winch cable sparked against any other piece of the wheeler?


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## Rack High (Feb 23, 2010)

One of the two items has voltage going to it (either the brake lever or the cable). Put a test light (or check with a multimeter) between each and a known ground (the frame) and this should tell you which is hot.


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

Yeah, it sparked to my Pen-Lock too. I'm aggrevated about this whole thing. So, do I need another new winch? I've had a Viper Elite that the contactor shorted out and burnt up, and now this Promark, the contactor went out on it too, but only had to replace the contactor. What's the solution, WARN?


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

If it only does it when you are spooling or unspooling, I'd be checking my grounds. If it does it while doing nothing...your on your own sparkie!:bigeyes: Shouldn't be any power to the wench at all then. Is there anything mounted to your bars that might be looking for a ground...like heated grips on and grounded to the bars...which is a no no?


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

Ok, RackHigh, I put the volt meter on it, and the cable has 12 volts on it. With only the key on, bike not running. And NMK, no heated grips. The rocker switch for the winch is on the bars, but it's rubberized, so i don't think that's it. Why is the winch cable hot?


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## Rack High (Feb 23, 2010)

If your winch cable is hot, then the whole winch housing is probably energized. Either one of your winch connections (terminals) might be touching the motor housing or the winch Terminal(s) is touching from inside the motor housing. They have insulators on them but they do crack and wear out. Sounds like a simple fix once you isolate which one is grounding.


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

The Yellow and Blue wires are also hot at the winch connetions. Shouldn't there be no power on the wires to the winch itself until the contactor is engaged? Is my problem in the contactor itself, maybe? that's certainly cheaper than a new winch. What do ya'll think? And thanks, by the way, for responding so quickly.


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

Is it hot all the time or only when spooling the winch? Something funky going on here.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Rack High said:


> If your winch cable is hot, then the whole winch housing is probably energized. Either one of your winch connections (terminals) might be touching the motor housing or the winch Terminal(s) is touching from inside the motor housing. They have insulators on them but they do crack and wear out. Sounds like a simple fix once you isolate which one is grounding.


i agree with this


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

the winch can be hot from a dying or faulty contactor. 
the winch wont move but it'll have just enough power to it.


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

phreebsd said:


> the winch can be hot from a dying or faulty contactor.
> the winch wont move but it'll have just enough power to it.


Yep, in that case he has multiple problems. Ahhhhh nothing like troubleshootng multi-trouble electrical problems on the internet.


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

The wires to the winch are hot with only the key on. No spooling, engine not running, I'm starting to suspect the contactor again. Am I right in thinking that the wires at the winch should not be energized with Positive or Negative power until i press on the rocker switch? The contacts should be completely open between the power coming from the battery and the wires to the winch itself, right?


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

correct


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

but even then voltage is leaking out of the motor to the cable. Like mentioned above, probably an insulator inside the motor. It could be an armature, various things will cause it.


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## Rack High (Feb 23, 2010)

2010Bruterider said:


> The Yellow and Blue wires are also hot at the winch connetions. Shouldn't there be no power on the wires to the winch itself until the contactor is engaged? Is my problem in the contactor itself, maybe? that's certainly cheaper than a new winch. What do ya'll think? And thanks, by the way, for responding so quickly.


There shouldn't be any power at either winch terminal if the contactor switch isn't depressed. Sounds like the contactor might be energized. If so, you better disconnect the winch if it hasn't burned up already. I'd hit the contactor with a rubber mallet and see if it "loosens up". Leave the winch leads unhooked and energize just the contactor, hit the forward and reverse switch on the handlebars and check for that distinctive snap sound. All the contactor does is reverse the polarity to the motor to either make it go clockwise or counterclockwise. It's starting to sound like the contactor to me also although that wouldn't make the winch cable hot.


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

I see what you mean, RackHigh. It's a bad contactor AND a problem at the winch motor. Cause that winch cable should not be hot even when the motor is spooling in or out.


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for your help guys. I'm going to go take my winch off and do some investigating.


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## greenkitty7 (Jan 26, 2011)

well as i always say, if you cant fix it with a hammer, you got yourself an electrical problem!


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

2010Bruterider said:


> The Yellow and Blue wires are also hot at the winch connetions. Shouldn't there be no power on the wires to the winch itself until the contactor is engaged? Is my problem in the contactor itself, maybe? that's certainly cheaper than a new winch. What do ya'll think? And thanks, by the way, for responding so quickly.


I think I would for sure pull the cables that run to the wench..off the contactor...right a way!!


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

greenkitty7 said:


> well as i always say, if you cant fix it with a hammer, you got yourself an electrical problem!


 
I like it...:haha:


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

IMO, several unique problems have to be in place for the symptoms you describe to happen. 

1. The winch contactor has to be faulty throwing positive volts to the motor part of the winch. 
2. Positive volts have to be bleeding from where the cables attach to the motor, insulator problems, carbon dust from worn brushes, shorted armature, something is allowing that positive voltage to bleed through to the winch housing itself. 
3. The body of the winch would have to be insulated from the frame. If the frame is grounded to battery negative, and the winch housing is bolted to that frame, why would electricity be transferred to the cable? It would take the path of least resistance to ground and that would be through the winch housing case to ground. In other words, right now it is seeking a path through gears, bearings, and the drum to find its way to the cable.

Lots of things have to be perfect for what you're describing to happen.


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## Rack High (Feb 23, 2010)

Amen to that Bruin!!






IBBruin said:


> IMO, several unique problems have to be in place for the symptoms you describe to happen.
> 
> 1. The winch contactor has to be faulty throwing positive volts to the motor part of the winch.
> 2. Positive volts have to be bleeding from where the cables attach to the motor, insulator problems, carbon dust from worn brushes, shorted armature, something is allowing that positive voltage to bleed through to the winch housing itself.
> ...


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## Coolwizard (Feb 28, 2009)

I recently had a similar thing happen to a Gorilla (now Promark) winch. The only difference is that mine would not spool in/out. It would just click at the contactor. The winch cable was "hot" with just the key on. I junked the entire set up. When I get time, I may take it a part to see if anything can be salvaged but it won't be going back on the quad. I'll get another Viper Max to replace it.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

my stepdad put a solenoid in between the contactor and its power source. the contactor only gets power when they key is on which makes the solenoid engage giving power to the winch system. it stopped his battery drain from that contactor easily and effectively.


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## honda maniac (Jun 17, 2010)

get another viper elite if any thing breaks they will replace it or give u a new winch 

or if money isnt a problem then get a warn 4000 mt mud tested


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## whoolieshop (Mar 22, 2011)

Get yourself a voltage meter and it should do a few things:
1) check to see if there is voltage going to either side of the winch from the contactor if so theres a contactor issue.
2) check the actual winch housing and cable to see if the cable or housing has 12 volts on it, if so theres an internal winch issue.

We expect our winches to work and we put them in a spot that constantly leaves them covered in mud and water. They get a LOT of exposure to the elements. They aren't really complicated devices but I think you have more than one problem here since it's arcing while the winch is at rest. 

Where your winch cables attach to the winch there should be rubber or plastic insulators to keep the cable from touching the housing, be sure that no part of the wire or connector is touching the frame of the winch.

Viper has made some improvements to their winches for 2011, more steps to keep them waterproof, a better wireless setup etc. And they have excellent customer service as well as warranty service. 

Pm me if you need a price on a new setup.


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