# Got the Engine out ..



## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

few pics after removing engine.


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## rowdy-outty (Jul 28, 2010)

840 time?


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

High comp s2 cams stock bore.


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## Roboquad (Sep 8, 2009)

top end or bottom rebuild?


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Valve job... High comp pistons. New starter clutch and new crank case bearing.


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## Roboquad (Sep 8, 2009)

Outch. Never wanna do the crank case, have had this engine out twice. good luck...


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## badazzbrute (Apr 11, 2010)

What a task... How much of this are you doing yourself? Keep us updated on the progress...


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Ive already pulled the engine apart myself.....WBM will be doing the crank case build as they have the new bearing.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

well got the engine over to WBM ....mind u this was running when i pulled it out to send the engine. tho from time to time on hard throttle it would backfire through the intake and pop the carbs off....

WELL.. they tell me that my cams are bad(worn off ) ?, Rocker arms are wore off?, Crank is bad, rods are egg shaped, has a spun crank bearing and my timing chains are badly streched...odd since i just put timing chains in last week and the bike ran maby 45mins. So then im told that they would get a price for me together and now its gonna be the cost of a new engine 2899. wow. thats with them taking my old "bad" engine that was just going in for a seal and high comp pistons/ possibly some head work. ??? 

Hard to trust someone that says your timing chains are bad when i know i just put them in about the rest of the engine. Not to mention i saw that rocker arms and they didn't look to be worn. So i ask what about the high comp engine i wanted i was told the 2899 and my engine would be fitted with them ??? 

Any one have them build an engine ? sounds like i got jacked for a engine and am about to have to come up with 3k for a "high comp" which will probably just be stock.


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## blue beast (Feb 16, 2010)

never dealt with them.i hate to hear all this bad publicity .did u tell them u had a new timing chain in it with a 45min run time on it..


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

yep....he said they could stretch quickly ?? Wow. Sounds like they just want me to buy an engine. I dont doubt that mine has some bad parts but not 3k worth lol. wow.


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## blue beast (Feb 16, 2010)

3k to rebuild a engine ,i would expect it to be here tommorrow 4 that price.. where are they located at


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## 650Brute (Dec 18, 2008)

Ewwwwww, It appears something is rotten in Denmark. I'd go get my stuff.

I hate to hear that.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

They are a s v


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## 1bigforeman (Jun 23, 2009)

There is only 2 more questions for this and they are both for you. 
1. After all that, why are you still considering using them?
2. Why haven't you gone there yet to get your stuff? They'll probably charge for storage when they find out they aren't going to get the job...


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

I have a couple of question also.

1. Did they tell you the canooter valve was bad?
2. Did they offer to kiss you?

Sounds to me like they want to sell you an engine they already have built, then build yours, put it on the shelf and sell it to the next unsuspecting person that walks through the door. I'd go get my **** and tell them to get ****ed.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Lol


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## meangreen360 (May 3, 2009)

Have to agree with said above. That just doesnt sound right at all! I would also tell them to get ****ed!


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## walker (Apr 5, 2009)

me personally i would tell them that they are to late for april fools .. now lets get my shat running ... where you say they where out of? and i would ask them to make sure that is my motor they are talking about . could mistaking yours for someone else's .. maybe since they are a sponsor they will chime in..


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

He sent me a parts list today. I'll link it up when I get home


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello Tim,
*
Here is the parts list for your engine.
Thanks
Mike
WBM Engines
*
Gasket Kit********** $135.95
Oil Seal Kit********* $32.50
High Compression piston kits* $150EA** $300.00
Hot Cams (both)** $349.59
Rocker Arms (Intake 2)*** $60.00EA*****$120.00
Rocker Arms (Exhaust 2)* $60.00EA**** $120.00
Cylinder Sleeves*** $200.00 for both
Intake valves (4)*** $27.31EA*** $109.24
Oil Pump Chain**** $24.49
Idler Chain*********** $24.80
Cam Chain (2)***** $31.16EA**** $62.32
Oil Pump************* $ 35.95
Idler gear clip******* $3.20
Mechanical seal*****$13.91
Washer**************** $5.58
Washer (Trans)*****$5.58
Crankshaft************$355.88
Crank Bearing****** $72.63
Rod Bearings (4)** $6.68EA********* $26.72
Rods (2)************** $139.15EA****** $278.30
Cam Plugs (2)****** $9.18EA***********$18.36
*
Labor****************** $600.00 

Total $ 2895.00


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## walker (Apr 5, 2009)

tell those idiots to send it back .. call amr !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 1bigforeman (Jun 23, 2009)

I agree. For that price you can get flynt or amr to do a known good job at a better price.


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

That's exactly why I never send out any engine work. I may send a jug out to have a new sleeves pressed in and bored or possibly grind the valves but that's only because I don't have the machines to do that myself. You are at their mercy. You can either trust them and give them 3K or pick it up and pay someone else you may or may not trust. 

They have to warranty the work so if you pick and choose what to put in it, they may not warranty anything if it comes apart. 


If you decide to let them do it, cross your fingers they do good work and it'll be money well spent.

Whacha gonna do?


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

No idea yet. I sent it to them so if I take it back I'll be out shipping. The price included shipping.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

For my original quote I was told 1500 for new left side case bearing and high comp pistons and cams. That's y i sent it out.


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

So you had an idea the crank bearing was either going out or headed that way, needing a crank is possible if you suspected a bad bearing. Rods egg shaped are any ones guess. Yes, no, maybe, who knows for sure except the guy that put the inside micrometer on them. Timing chains stretched? That's pretty far fetched since you said you only had 45 minutes run time on them but I guess anythings possible. 

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

Holy Crap dude....

The old, Bait and Switch... 

Seriously thou, for that kind of cash you could get a reputable place to do the work, AMR, BigKev, or Fundy.

Better to take the loss on shipping, then eat the 1,000+ in overcharge. Get a shipping company to pick it up there and carry to somewhere else.


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## BleednGreen68 (Apr 19, 2010)

That doesnt sound right at all. Somethin is fishy. I'd get yer stuff.


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## byrd (Jul 14, 2009)

i been in ur shoes b4. i was luck that there is to local shops by me so when the first one tried to screw me over i called the other and told them the situation and he said he would cut the price in half plus throw in a free pine tree air freshner if id let him go pick up the motor from the other shop. apparently they hate each other lol


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## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

Where is this place? Road Trip?


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

I have their address. Road trip would be kinda far....tho right now it seems very beneficial.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

WBM Engines
10313 Old Hwy 62
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
(812) 985-3500 Phone
(812) 985-3502 Fax
[email protected]


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## walker (Apr 5, 2009)

well i would post something in there little advertisement section and see what they say .. indiana isnt that far ?????


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## blue beast (Feb 16, 2010)

N2Otorious said:


> Where is this place? Road Trip?


*10 hours 58 minutes* / *667.15 miles* from tyler,tx 

est.Fuel Cost: *$226.83* round trip @ 15 mpg

it would be worth it???


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## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

blue beast said:


> *10 hours 58 minutes* / *667.15 miles* from tyler,tx
> 
> est.Fuel Cost: *$226.83* round trip @ 15 mpg
> 
> would it be worth it???


That is easier to say when it isn't your engine. If it is... well then them numbers aren't as big...

He has a Geo metro that gets approx 55mpg... so it isn't that bad.



667 miles / 50mpg = 13.34 gallons of fuel x 3.00 per gallon = $40.02 bucks in fuel x 2 = $80.04 in Fuel Round trip.


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## meangreen360 (May 3, 2009)

Seeing the look on there faces when you show up on there door step=PRICELESS


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## blue beast (Feb 16, 2010)

oh i see what i did .. i phrased it wrong..suppose to be "it would be worth it".. ill go fix it.. that way.. but in a geo metro for less than a 100 bucks i think i would be goin to get me a motor


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## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

meangreen360 said:


> Seeing the look on there faces when you show up on there door step=PRICELESS


Hell yeah...



blue beast said:


> oh i see what i did .. i phrased it wrong..suppose to be "it would be worth it".. ill go fix it.. that way.. but in a geo metro for less than a 100 bucks i think i would be goin to get me a motor


Hell Yeah!!


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## walker (Apr 5, 2009)

this is not my engine but it kinda upsets me that this is suppose to be a sponsor .. and they ain't sayin shat .. whats up with that .. get glenn at amr a call and tell them to ship to him and you will pay them back the shipping ... wink wink


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Just so that you know, 2 years ago when I had flynt look at mine, we were looking at $2500 to rebuild what was tore up, and go back with HC pistons and webcams..... So.....


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

I called one of johns recommendatios from ms today. He seemed very interested and counldnt recall many engines that needed rocker arms and cams because of wear as well as replacing the oil pump.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

what prompted all this to begin with?


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Engine was ticking sounded like starter was slipping. End of last ride i had to give it about 3/4 gas to get it started. It did it at the end of red neck games about 2 week prior to that and then cleared up. Starter slipping was starter clutch and intermediate chain slipping


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

never been dunked? or went dead in water?


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

NoPe


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Engine is being boxed and sent to MS


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## bigblackbf (Apr 19, 2010)

hell yean flynt's the man he just built an 840 for me 3 weeks ago hes the man he wont let u down and he wont screw u. flynt for the win.


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## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

03dsglightning said:


> Engine was ticking sounded like starter was slipping. End of last ride i had to give it about 3/4 gas to get it started. It did it at the end of red neck games about 2 week prior to that and then cleared up. Starter slipping was starter clutch and intermediate chain slipping


Flynt or Hunterworks?


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

N2Otorious said:


> Flynt or Hunterworks?


It's going to hunter works.


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## nFlow (Aug 12, 2010)

Good Afternoon Everyone,

I will address this issue after it was brought to our attention this afternoon. The gentleman(03dsglighting) contacted us and issued there was a running issue with his brute force 750. Symptoms of running issues were recorded as knocking sound, back firing through the intake and would pop the carburetor off as well as hard starting. Customer, also requested that he would like to have the engine he sent, built and sent back. Which is perfectly fine. Customer also requested he would like to have high compression pistons installed and go through the entire engine. Customer, knew the price and the process before he shipped the engine. Once, the engine arrived like every other engine, it goes through an inspection and pictures are taking. Then one of our technicians disassembled the top end, all parts were inspected, recorded and pictures were taken. Numerous parts where out of spec and needed to be replaced. The bottom end then was disassembled, every internal component was inspected, measured and recorded. Again numerous parts were out of spec, oil was contaminated with a lot of dirt and water. Oil pump screen was also full of contaminated particles within the engine. The customer then was notified of the issue and the options that were available. The customer responded with not wanting to replace some of the internal components that were damaged. WBM Engines as a company does not cut any corners or will not assemble an engine with damaged components. With that being said, WBM Engines told the customer we will not assemble his engine with worn out components. The customer then requested to have his engine picked up and sent to another company. WBM Engines has no issues with the customer's decision on sending it to another company, because WBM Engines will not assemble any engine with worn out or damaged components. The customer was not charged for any parts, engines or labor. We have a great reputation and will not jeopardize that on sending out an engine with worn out components. We wish the customer the best of luck and hopes everyone understands our process and policies.

WBM Engines


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Thanks for your understanding In my situation. But just like u quoted above, you stated the engine had water and dirt in it ? Odd being that I just assembled it last week and it was never ridden just started and run. I will just feel better with the engine at a place closer to deal with.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

I thank wmb for being understanding in me
Wanting a second opinion on the engine. It was not an issue of putting in bad parts but I was quoted replacement of parts i knew were good. Ie new timing chains .... My stage 1 hot cams were "bad" ? I just didn't see spending nearly 3 k and get back a sleeved engine. My new route should have NEW cylinders. For less money.


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## Newbruteforcetothegame (Aug 31, 2010)

You done the right thing..cuz if you only started it up and it ran 45 minutes then there was something fishy about that..that had to make it sound bad on your part and not theirs for you catching the switch


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Catching the switch ?


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## DjScrimm (Jan 2, 2009)

Let us know how Hunterworks is!


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Hunterworks sounded very promising... It's always nice to hear an engine builder say they want the bike there to put it in themselves and Dyno/tune it. That to me means they are at the very least confident they will build a good running engine and are expecting it to make some
Good power.
I just hope that all the parts i sent in are the parts that make it to hunter. I marked some of em just in case 


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## nolli69 (Jan 29, 2010)

ok i just read this whole thread, and wow, im amazed that no one said anything about the 750 cylinders getting sleeved, they dont have sleeves, there coated, and the coating process can fix just about any imperfection. my 840 cylinders were way out of limits, and the amr pistons i replaced the je pistons with were slightly smaller, and millenium technologys had no issues replating the cylinders back to the right size.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

yes .... and i would like mine to NOT be sleeved as well.


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## bigblackbrute (Jun 3, 2009)

the older brute motors are nt nickle seald like the new ones r and they can be bored and sleeved bt the new ones cant and they require new cylinders or re sealing.


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## countryboy61283 (Mar 20, 2010)

That's what they told me is that mine can't be bored cause its nickel sealed


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## Brute650i (Dec 17, 2008)

I brought up some good facts to think on in my last post in the other thread but guess it got lost in the copy. Anyway the plated cylinders can be bored and can be sleeved. 

If you bore them you must send them off to get re plated. If you chose to sleeve then you install the sleeve and then bore the steel sleeve no need to replate. 

The 650i and 750 are plated and the 650sra are sleeved unless they changed something in the past few yrs. 

My opinion from hearing what has been said in this thread is that the parts that is on the parts list are very possible to be bad. As far as chains and oil pump I know Several builders who will change chains and oil pump any time the bottom end is torn down. They are cheap to replace and if they fail will cause a lot more problems. 

Just my 2 cents


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## Injected (Mar 21, 2010)

No sense in rebuilding a engine with a used oil pump. If a engine is knocking, there is metal thats worn, worn metal equals metal flakes that are not visible to the naked eye. You can be sure those metal shavings are in the pump. Also, if you have a oil cooler, replace it including the oil lines. Metal gets everywhere


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

Injected said:


> No sense in rebuilding a engine with a used oil pump. If a engine is knocking, there is metal thats worn, worn metal equals metal flakes that are not visible to the naked eye. You can be sure those metal shavings are in the pump. Also, if you have a oil cooler, replace it including the oil lines. Metal gets
> 
> everywhere


There was no metal /oil/ or water contamination. I guess what I said is getting lost. I just had this engine apart. Wbm stated the oil had water and debris in the oil. It shipped with no oil in the case. When it was apart I obviously cleaned all old oil out. So the ONLY oil in it before it was drained to be sent was new and clean. Which means there would of been no metal shavings or water in oil. It's things like being told there was when I knew there wasn't that made me worry. And the oil I drained when I started to disassemble the enigne had no shavings.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

And I never said it was knocking only popping off the carbs and a clunk from the bad starter clutch. To reply to injected.


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## Injected (Mar 21, 2010)

In wbm responce, he states the engine was knocking, thats where i got the info.
I re-read the post, after doing so, it sounds like they have your engine mixed up with someone elses.


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## monsterbrute750 (Apr 13, 2010)

Although I agree with the diagnosis of WBM,
You say your engine never took in any water. The engine they are describing did.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

True ... May of been a mix up. I had the engine apart and know the parts I sent. I'll be able 2 tell if what I get back is mine or not.


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## monsterbrute750 (Apr 13, 2010)

Good luck with your build. Hunter does good work.
IDK where you're located, but Turner here in Houston does good builds also. And they stand behind their work until you're happy.


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

I really like that comment wbm left above when he said the customer wasn't being charged yet when I called today they want 330$ for tear down. Very stand up company. Not once have they did what they said.


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## byrd (Jul 14, 2009)

wbmengines said:


> Good Afternoon Everyone,
> 
> The customer was not charged for any parts, engines or labor. We have a great reputation and will not jeopardize that on sending out an engine with worn out components. We wish the customer the best of luck and hopes everyone understands our process and policies.
> 
> WBM Engines


WOW they are going to charge u after posting this for everyone to read


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## blue beast (Feb 16, 2010)

i hope hunterworks takes care of u better .


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Until I have talked to both parties, both are equally as guilty IMO. 


I tell you what I wont allow, bashing on this forum. Regardless. Thread locked until further notice.


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