# Clutching...



## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

sorry, i know you guys have seen this too many times. I just cant seem to find what color springs i need to be runnin. I just got the 4wheeler and it has 29.5's with a red primary and black secondary. I ride mainly mud and water. I creep alot. dont really care for goin at high speeds. Should i keep the setup?? 
thanks, matt


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

sorry, it looks like a almond secondary


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

nope u want a pink or maroon primary or even stock would work and def a red secondary for sure


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Thats what I thought...

I have a red secondary and gold primary...I might go to stock weights and stock primary though


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Heres mine



















and I believe 54g weights, it's just the EPI mudder clutch kit from HL. I am thinking of removing the weights.

You saw how it did...really well, but HIGH STALL. It's AWESOME for wheelies but a PITA riding around sometimes. It's jerky...


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## fatcat 650 (Nov 22, 2009)

why not try just the red secondary I run this with my 29.5's and enjoy it .


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

To be honest the Almond Primary and a Red Secondary for just playing around in the mud and trail riding.... Thats the only set up I would run.


Hey...The Gold Primary is Awesome....LOL....I love the one I have.


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

so the guy did it the exact opposite...haha i was lookin alot up last night and it looks like alot of people run almond primary and red secondary. why would the guy i bought mine off of get red primary and almond secondary?? that wouldnt be the same would it??
Also, im just curious bout this. does a higher stall just grab the belt faster(after the stall haha) ?? wouldnt that wear the belt down faster?


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

I love my stall, it's a little too much sometimes, but AWESOME for racing and playing aorund.

Another HUGE plus is that when you are in the water, you can keep your idle up underwater without spinning tires


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Offroadin89 said:


> so the guy did it the exact opposite...haha i was lookin alot up last night and it looks like alot of people run almond primary and red secondary. why would the guy i bought mine off of get red primary and almond secondary?? that wouldnt be the same would it??
> Also, im just curious bout this. does a higher stall just grab the belt faster(after the stall haha) ?? wouldnt that wear the belt down faster?


NOt sure if the red primary and the almond secondary would be too good for trail riding.:thinking:


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## walker (Apr 5, 2009)

might have meant to order almond primary and red secondary and got it backwards....


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

The almond is Great with the stiffer secondarys


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## MeanGreen198 (Apr 28, 2009)

Bootlegger said:


> To be honest the Almond Primary and a Red Secondary for just playing around in the mud and trail riding.... Thats the only set up I would run.quote]
> 
> 
> :agreed:


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

im thinkin the guy made a big mistake!! owell
im for sure gonna run a red secondary. Just confused on what primary to get. Im stuck between almond and gold. What you guys think. I mainly ride mud and water. Ride a little bit trails.


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

I like mine...if that helps. I'd get both, like we talked about before, try and see what you like better


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

jrpro130 said:


> I like mine...if that helps. I'd get both, like we talked about before, try and see what you like better



If you take your 54 grams weight off...and want to sale them Please PM me the price you want for them.

I run a Gold or Red Primary when I race with a Lime Green Secondary. I have all kinds of springs I play with...


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## jrpro130 (May 10, 2009)

Bootlegger said:


> If you take your 54 grams weight off...and want to sale them Please PM me the price you want for them.
> 
> I run a Gold or Red Primary when I race with a Lime Green Secondary. I have all kinds of springs I play with...


Will do, I'm going to experiment, but from what I've read and everyone tells me, the setup I have is tried and tested...everyone says keep it. I am going to adjust my deflection, I just put on a new belt in a hurry after I burned the old one, and see how it rides. It has been out of tune for a while


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

ya, i think i gotta tighten up my belt also. i dont konw about measurin it but i hear the belt suppose to be a lil bit over on the secondary. is this right??


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

jrpro130 said:


> Will do, I'm going to experiment, but from what I've read and everyone tells me, the setup I have is tried and tested...everyone says keep it. I am going to adjust my deflection, I just put on a new belt in a hurry after I burned the old one, and see how it rides. It has been out of tune for a while


Nevermind....the weights for the 08's an up will not work on the 05-07's. Well...that is what EPI says....the 08 are bushed and the 05-07's are not.

I mess with clutching all the time...there are tons of ways you can go.


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

i just ordered gold primary and red secondary
thnaks for the help guys. :mimbrules:
i also ordered the primary puller. Whats the best way to put on both the new springs.
thanks


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

The Gold spring is Nice....I race with it or a Red primary most of the time. I mean the Gold has some stall but its not crazy.


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

stall dont really bother me. Right now i have red and it dosent bother me.


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## Guarino113 (Oct 3, 2009)

there is a how to for both of them in the how to section. i did mine like that and was pretty easy


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

i was lookin at that spring chart on here. how exacly does that work. i understand pounds but what is 2 1/2, 2 1/4 , and 1 1/4? is it how much throttle??


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## Brute650i (Dec 17, 2008)

That's the compressed length of the spring I believe


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

well i got the springs in today and i just got the brute all taken apart. im second guessin myself on the gold primary now. ive been lookin at those charts and it looks like a almond would have been alot better. Are almond and gold that far apart? im lookin at the chart and it looks like the almond grabs the belt alot harder at lower rpms...i guess i should just try it for awhile in order almond in couple weeks....


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

oh ya, also, why is my gold spring taller then the red that was in it before?? The gold is weaker though. I would think it would be shorter also.
thanks, matt


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Offroadin89 said:


> oh ya, also, why is my gold spring taller then the red that was in it before?? The gold is weaker though. I would think it would be shorter also.
> thanks, matt


Here's how the Gold and Almond compare to the stock on a chart through the compression range.









The gold is going to have a heck-of-a stall and good low end but its going to shift-over on the mid-high end faster then the stock or the almond...and with those start pressures , its going to be murder on your engine break...if you still use it. Depends on what you want to do and how you ride...and what's in the secondary.


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Offroadin89 said:


> oh ya, also, why is my gold spring taller then the red that was in it before?? The gold is weaker though. I would think it would be shorter also.
> thanks, matt


Sounds to me like its was a Maroon instead of a Red.....the Red one is Bright Red. Do you have any pics of the Red one you have?


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

im thinkin its a maroon now, because its a darker shade of red then the secondary red. and its shorter then then gold. Will the gold hurt anything with regular ridin?? 
and what is my engine break? i didnt konw i had one. How will the gold hurt it?


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Offroadin89 said:


> im thinkin its a maroon now, because its a darker shade of red then the secondary red. and its shorter then then gold. Will the gold hurt anything with regular ridin??
> and what is my engine break? i didnt konw i had one. How will the gold hurt it?



If its not the same color as the Red secondary its the Maroon one. The Gold will be fine for trail riding...now you will have a lot more stall than the Maroon but still not a lot. I think you will like it....what secondary are you running? If you don't like the Gold....it will be easy to sale. If you don't like it...go with the Almond Primary...you will like it.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Offroadin89 said:


> what is my engine break? i didnt konw i had one. How will the gold hurt it?


That actuator on top of your belt cover is the engine brake actuator. Above 3MPH (maybe 2) it rotates a fork into the end of the primary..against that bearing, and pushes the shive in enough to make contact with the belt taking the slack (deflection) out. With the stock spring, there is only a few pounds for the fork to have to push against, but with the gold it starts with 25. Much harder for the actuator to push against. Might not be able to do it and if so, you will get a flashing efi or 2wd light on the pod. That's how they display an error code. If you get that...you will know what it is.


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Its does fine with the Gold...I run it alot.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Bootlegger said:


> Its does fine with the Gold...I run it alot.


Cool. I didn't know for sure. Seems to have enough trouble without any help..lol


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

i went ahead and put the gold in. im gonna be runnin a red secondary with it. havent finished puttin it together yet. im waitin for a new CTV cover gasket to come in. should be in today though. 
i called epi and the aint much dif between almond and gold. Almond is better for higher rpm's and gold is better for lower rpms. thats all. and the stall is barely different. and of you look at the chart the almond is 19 and gold is 25 pounds at 2 1/2. Thanks for the help!! i cant wait to ride it. Hopefully itll be a big difference!:mimbrules:


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Offroadin89 said:


> i went ahead and put the gold in. im gonna be runnin a red secondary with it. havent finished puttin it together yet. im waitin for a new CTV cover gasket to come in. should be in today though.
> i called epi and the aint much dif between almond and gold. Almond is better for higher rpm's and gold is better for lower rpms. thats all. and the stall is barely different. and of you look at the chart the almond is 19 and gold is 25 pounds at 2 1/2. Thanks for the help!! i cant wait to ride it. Hopefully itll be a big difference!:mimbrules:




don't put stock in everything EPI tells ya...I learned the hard way with them...lol. The Gold does have more noticeable stall than the almond....on the chart the only time the almond has more is at 1.25. The Bright Green is a waste of money IMO...its one above the Almond. The almond it the best primary for the Red secondary IMO. If you don't like the Gold just get the Almond....but I think you will. I love mine with a Lime Green secondary. I want another Red Primary is anyone has one for sale.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

i know we're talking primaries but i think EPI secondaries may be too much.


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

phreebsd said:


> i know we're talking primaries but i think EPI secondaries may be too much.



IMO they are....The stiffest I will use is a Blue one and thats rare.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

I was using the red secondary. Came with my kit. After about 1200 miles decided to back off a little to a Dalton Violet. Got my top end back and still climb anything in high range. Love it with the maroon primary. I just have 27s so its all good.


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

well i got the cvt cover seal today. havent put it back together yet. ill do it in the mornin. im gonna run gold for couple months then try almond and just keep whatever one i like better.


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

let us know how you like it...


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

i will, for sure! ill update ya guys tom when i get it tog too. :rockn: hopefully she rips!


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## Offroadin89 (Oct 28, 2009)

hey guys i got to go ridin with the new clutch springs. It was soo much different. I love it. It has quite a bit of stall but it dont bother me. im already use to it. IT WILL PULL A WHEELIE NOW!!!! Im gonna try a almond in a couple months to see if there is any difference. There are a couple vids in atv media of me and lilbigtonka, and lulu500 ridin. It was very cold out though and i dont have waiders so i was takin it easy. lol
thanks for all the help.


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

glad you like it.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Me too. Glad it worked out.


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## watercan (Feb 16, 2010)

I installed a black sec and pick primary, but I notice a change in the accel. It revs up higher before moving, seems to grab well. is this right?


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## drtj (May 3, 2009)

The primary controls the stall. From what I've read the pink is real close to stock. So it should have a little stall to it. If I'm wrong someone correct me.


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## Guarino113 (Oct 3, 2009)

yeah its not supposed to have any. but when i put in the maroon a while back i noticed some and everyone said you wouldnt. i think when you ride something for so long and any change you can notice it. i have the almond now and i can notice it too. its just something you have to get used to.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

You will notice a small stall for sure with the almond and maroon primary springs. The pink is about 50/50. Some folks say they can tell a slight difference will others say they can not.I personally have tried a pink and can say yes i could tell a very small difference in engagement RPM. But it should not be anything significant for sure.If your experiencing a big change in engagement RPM you may have something else going on.

Is there a big difference compared to the stock engagement or is it a very slight difference?


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

The Pink had no stall....in reverse you can't tell a tiny one in the Maroon...but thats it. The Almond you can tell a very small one. The primary helps with shift out and rpm's. The OEM primary is not much with any spring about a Almond secondary....when you put a stiff secondary...you need to compensate with at a stiffer primary. Superbogger750 can explain that better than me.

Disclaimer..."that is with my ghetto 52 gram stock weights" so I felt a little more than most that has 58 stock weights.


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## summitrev (Jan 13, 2010)

HI! I have a question about my clutch's springs. I have a Brute Force 650i with 27'' Mud bug tire. My question is what are the best springs for this set up? thanks


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## No_Substitue_For_A_Brute (May 4, 2011)

summitrev said:


> HI! I have a question about my clutch's springs. I have a Brute Force 650i with 27'' Mud bug tire. My question is what are the best springs for this set up? thanks


Check out the clutching section.... first post at the top stickied....

in fact here:

 Secondary Spring Rundown - MudInMyBlood Forums


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

probably didnt even bother to read any of it.


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## summitrev (Jan 13, 2010)

sorry for the question but i speak french i come of quebec and read english is little bit difficult for me sorry guys


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

In that case, Almond secondary from EPI.


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## summitrev (Jan 13, 2010)

thanks


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## cody_20 (Apr 13, 2012)

guys I have a dumb question, and excuse me for this. What does "stall" mean??


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## wmredneck (Dec 6, 2011)

Stall is the point at which the clutch engages. Say you hold the throttle down 5% and then the clutch engages and tires start turning that's a mild stall. The more stall, the more throttle you have to give the bike before the clutch engages and the tires will turn. 






Wishing I was home instead of on the road using TapTalk


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## The Big Bad Wolf (Mar 8, 2011)

summitrev said:


> sorry for the question but i speak french i come of quebec and read english is little bit difficult for me sorry guys


Ah un autre quebecois.Si tu a d'autre probleme a lire ou comprendre envoye moi un Message je t'aiderais.
Bonne chance. 



Overtime!!!! Taking the world over one shift ata time
Sent from my iPhone using tapatalk


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## The Big Bad Wolf (Mar 8, 2011)

Hope a lil French on here is ok idk if there are rules on that , if it's an issue i can pm. Just trying to help



Overtime!!!! Taking the world over one shift ata time
Sent from my iPhone using tapatalk


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## brutemike (Mar 23, 2010)

The Big Bad Wolf said:


> Hope a lil French on here is ok idk if there are rules on that , if it's an issue i can pm. Just trying to help
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just want to know what you said about us is French haha.

Should be working on it instead of talking about it..


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## The Big Bad Wolf (Mar 8, 2011)

Heheheh!



Overtime!!!! 
Taking the world over one shift ata time
Sent from my iPhone using tapatalk


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