# brute BBK?



## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

I was just wondering about BBK kits for brute forces, I really don't know alot about them. Whats the biggest CC for "bolt on kits", and what else is needed to be done to the bike other then the engine work? and also how much do they cost? And same questions for a not bolt on kits. Also whats the reliability on them? for trail riding and mudding? alot of questions but im just curious.. ill be looking online for answers as well but some of my ?'s are opinion based.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

To refine it a bit, id like to get the most HP possible, without having to send my engine away. Do big guns do well on built engines? Id also like to see what I could get for around $1500 MAYBE $2000. no shipping things around, I would if i didn't live in Canada. 840 seems like the most popular but I think id like to go for a bit more, I really don't know alot about what is needed to be done so any info appreciated.


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

Well for starters, the bigger the bore the less reliable it's gonna be, usually head gasket issues. It depends alot on the kind of riding you do. An 840 is really TOO much if all you do is trail ride. If you do alot of mud riding the 840 will do you well. As far as getting more than the 840, unless you plan on drag racing or mud racing and trying to be competitive, it's all the power you will ever need for sure. Going that big you will have to have some boring done, stiffer valve springs, clutch work, more air to the motor (adding a second air intake snorkle), a good exhaust system, and something to help keep it cool. They make a 765 kit that has TONS of power and VERY reliable, this is what I would suggest looking into, but it's not the 840, which is a whole different beast. Since you're in Canada, Fundy would probably be your best bet for a kit, although he is kinda pricey, he makes excellent parts. You won't be able to do an 840 for 2 grand unless you do all the work yourself. $1500 would get you an 840 kit from AMR, that would include pistons, rings, kibblewhite double valve springs, whatever cams you choose 2X, 3X etc., and base and head gaskets. Mine was around 4 grand, but I had AMR do all my work from pulling the motor, rebuilding, and reinstalling it, but I did put a few things on it that I didn't HAVE to have. The port and polish on the heads was $600. Also, a big gun will be great for a bbk, but the looney tune would work much better, and sound better IMO. Hope this helps some.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Don't know much about these built motors so I can't help you much.:34: What I do know is that going "Internal" whether it be a 816 or 840 is that they become significantly less reliable. For me the 750 is too strong as it is Btw, J2 don't think they make a Looned Tune exhaust for the brutes:33: If I were to go internal i would put a Muzzy Pro, there the best for "Built" motors, IMO from what I have read.


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

tx_brute_rider said:


> Btw, J2 don't think they make a Looned Tune exhaust for the brutes:33:


:thinking: HMMM I thought they did, sorry about that. As you stated the muzzy would also be a great choice. I had to put the HMF on mine, it's the ONLY pipe they make for my bike with the v-twin. :zx11pissed:


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

Id probably do a 840 then, ive been reading and what you've said is completely right. Im kind of a power junkie, I don't think anything is "enough". Lets narrow this info to an 840 then, what is all required? I have to bore my cyls not get new jugs correct? Id probably do port/polish and 11.5 so I can run on pump. I don't need a new crank with an 840 (I think) do I need new valves? If I do decide to do an 840 instead of selling my bike, I want to do everything right nothing overlooked.

Edit: TRP? is that from Truro Nova Scotia? thats actually not far from me, I will probably be looking at their stuff, but they don't offer an 840 says discontinued.


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## DSC (Aug 1, 2011)

We offer a stg1 840 kit for 1300.00. Comes with everything you need. I would need your Cylinders and cams as cores.

http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13856


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

Waddaman said:


> Id probably do a 840 then, ive been reading and what you've said is completely right. Im kind of a power junkie, I don't think anything is "enough". Lets narrow this info to an 840 then, what is all required? I have to bore my cyls not get new jugs correct? Id probably do port/polish and 11.5 so I can run on pump. I don't need a new crank with an 840 (I think) do I need new valves? If I do decide to do an 840 instead of selling my bike, I want to do everything right nothing overlooked.


 Yes you can use your jugs and you will have to bore them. I run 12:1 and I can still run 93 in it but it likes the sunoco 112 MUCH better. Anything higher than 12:1 and no more pump gas. No you won't need a new crank either. Mine was a 650 so I put a 700 crank and rods in it, that was another $600 of mine. Bigger valves are always a plus but you will have to do a valve job on yours if you use them. Bigger carbs will help alot too if you want to spend the money, I'm still running my stock carbs but the only reason I didn't go with bigger ones which I really wanted to do, is because I would have had to fab up a whole new air box to fit them and find air filters to fit it too, and that's alot of work for the few hp you will get from them. But when you race every hp counts. And racing in the HL series you have to run stock carbs and intakes or you have to run in the open class.


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

Yes Fundy is in Nova Scotia. And yeah look at dsc's kits as well ^^ I think his kits have the cylinders already bored with them.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't know DSC, sending my stuff down there would be $$$$$ and put me out of riding for a long time. So with an 840 I can run stock carbs and valves. Only need engine work. What about cams? I do mud and trail riding... Also fundy sells 880's but no prices on anything... maybe need to get one from down south.


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## Roboquad (Sep 8, 2009)

Btw, J2 don't think they make a Looned Tune exhaust for the brutes:33: If I were to go internal i would put a Muzzy Pro, there the best for "Built" motors, IMO from what I have read.[/QUOTE]

Uuummmm..wrong....you may want to check with Kawiboy(here). Or just watch his looney tuned Bruit on you tube. I've got to agree, its the best sounding bike I've heard.IMO.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh yeah, my bad waddaman and J2!. Do you know where he got the dual Looney Tuned exhaust from, I think his is SRA.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

I love the sound of big gun, id do a looney tuned tho they sound great also. I don't want a muzzy i really don't like them. I think Kawiboy made his or did something, there not retail.


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

Waddaman said:


> I don't know DSC, sending my stuff down there would be $$$$$ and put me out of riding for a long time. So with an 840 I can run stock carbs and valves. Only need engine work. What about cams? I do mud and trail riding... Also fundy sells 880's but no prices on anything... maybe need to get one from down south.


Yes you can run stock valves and carbs. $$$ is why I suggested getting your kit from Fundy since they are local to you. For mud and trail you will want the 2X cams, best power without going to strictly drag cams. Check with AMR he is in Wooster Ohio which really isn't that far from you compared to the builders down here, DSC would probably be easier on the pocketbook. Maybe he could get you a kit in a decent amount of time and his kits are some of the best you will find, Gkenn also has AWSOME customer service, great guy.


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## DSC (Aug 1, 2011)

Waddaman said:


> I don't know DSC, sending my stuff down there would be $$$$$ and put me out of riding for a long time. So with an 840 I can run stock carbs and valves. Only need engine work. What about cams? I do mud and trail riding... Also fundy sells 880's but no prices on anything... maybe need to get one from down south.


 

I shipped a few things up there and for a box this size and weight, I wouldn't think it would be over 40 bucks to ship and your probably looking at 25 to 30 to ship the cores down to me.

The stg1 840 would be good around for what your doing. You can add bigger valves and spend alot of money on porting but for what your doing stock heads will be just fine. Maybe spend a little time cleaning up the ports if your able to do it yourself.

If you wanted to get a little crazy, I offer a SS900 kit. You can run stock rods and crank and get 900cc's. That kit is 2025.00. comes with everything you need. You will need to get your case bored to fit the bigger sleeved cylinders.


Keep in mind, no matter what size bore you go with your only going to suck so much air threw stock air box and carbs.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

Can I get a stage 1 with 2x cams, i have no idea of brands are they good branded stuff? and how much does it cost with the machining and everything needed except shipping and tax.


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Guys on the LTE exhaust, he has an irs bike so its a no go. They only fit the Prairie or sra brutes. Muzzy is coming out with duals that will fit all irs bikes not just the 2012 but who knows when they will be ready. Waddaman I would go with DSC stuff over fundy/trp unless you like waiting a long time for your parts.


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## Roboquad (Sep 8, 2009)

Good to know, my bike is SRA....


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Yeah Robo they will fit your bike but they are not available new anymore so need to keep an eye out for SH. There was a used set for sale on KR not long ago for around $500 but they are gone. Sorry for the thread hijack OP.


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## BF2012 (Jun 10, 2011)

DSC said:


> We offer a stg1 840 kit for 1300.00. Comes with everything you need. I would need your Cylinders and cams as cores.
> 
> http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13856


 This sounds like the best bang for the buck, hands down.Wadda, you just send your cylinders and cams, with $1300, and get everything you need for the motor shipped back to you. Of course you would still need an exhaust,,,,but you could still be under $2000, if you do the install.


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## JJB (Feb 5, 2010)

tx_brute_rider said:


> Don't know much about these built motors so I can't help you much.:34: *What I do know is that going "Internal" whether it be a 816 or 840 is that they become significantly less reliable*. For me the 750 is too strong as it is Btw, J2 don't think they make a Looned Tune exhaust for the brutes:33: If I were to go internal i would put a Muzzy Pro, there the best for "Built" motors, IMO from what I have read.


Interesting statement. Any data, facts, or real world experience to back up your claims?


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

What I have heard only... Or is it just the water and mud that goes into your engine when some people swamp it?:33: So if you do internal mods to your engine like make it into an 840, it'll be as reliable like it was before stock? Doesn't it go "Boom" faster?


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

I thought the same, but I imagine if you do everything right so your not exceeding the limits of the rest of the engine, It SHOULD be fine. Stocks only built for stock, always remember that...


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

We have several members here that have BIG motors and they are plenty reliable... just go read posts in the DSC section.

http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14604


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

Question. Can you take the heads off on the bike or does the whole engine gotta cone out? Im torn between 840 31"laws and muzzy duals versus a renegade...


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

Not sure on the Brutes, but on my kitty you can pull the front head off with it in the bike but not the back. The motor has to come out to get it off. And I would go with the 840 and never look back. A stock rene doesn't have anything on an 840 that is built right, no comparison at all. I'm sure some canned ham owners will chime in and tell ya different, but we all know better !! LOL :bigok:


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## Sanative (May 4, 2011)

Definitely 840/31's/muzzys. Theres a video on youtube of the new brute almost beating a outty 1000.....
If it wasn't for the take off he probably would've


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

Im close to my dad's stock gade on 28" backs now if not passing him in power. With an 840 It would be no comparison at all. Im just debating is the money im putting into my brute ever going to come back out, a can am is going to cost me more but I can get the money back easier. But If I can get an 840 from DSC and bore my cyl's locally to get them done fast... maybe some muzzy duals and 31"s...lol. It will cost me less then half to do that compared to completely modifying a gade to make it like mine. And I think an 840 would beat a can am with bolt ons and tuned also. But hauling an engine is alot of labor compared to just pulling top end off.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

Bump, nobody knows if you can pull the top end on the bike?


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## CRAZYCRACKAZ71 (Oct 8, 2011)

I got mine to a 780cc and its a beast, crazy hp crazy in mudd. Insain. Not to much for me to handle but i sure wont go no bigger!


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## roadstarjohn1978 (Jul 14, 2011)

Yes you can pull the whole top end with the motor in the bike, just gotta remove the side covers and everything above it-airbox, carbs etc.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

So you CAN pull the cylinders right off the bike with engine still in the frame??? thats some good news right there... If that's true I can do a full 840 without pulling the engine then my mind is pretty much made up... I know carbs/plastics/everything else will have to be removed, but thats easy compared to the whole engine.


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## roadstarjohn1978 (Jul 14, 2011)

Yep my top end was rebuilt with the motor in the frame


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

happen to have a pic? anybody have a pic of top end out of brute while in the frame? So I can see how much room there is to actually change cams/pistons and get cylinders out.


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## roadstarjohn1978 (Jul 14, 2011)

Heres a couple pics, the carbs were in a bag so they are kinda in the way but thats whats sitting on top of the cases


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

Thanks you didn't even have to take the front plastics off sweet


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

I forgot to ask this.. What do you need for a jet kit for an 840?? will a dynojet stage 1 kit be enough? or will I need bigger jets?


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

You will need bigger jets for sure. The stage one kit is pretty much just for a cdi and pipe setup. Since you will have to add a second air intake snorkle to get enough air to it, none of the jets will be big enough to get the needed fuel to it. These 840's require ALOT or air and fuel to run, but man they put out some serious hp !!


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

Was going to change to a 3" intake, will 2 2" do?


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## biggun132 (Oct 9, 2009)

If you buy the stage one kit from dale at Dsc you won't have to do any machine work. The cylinders already come bored and renickasealed (or however you spell that lol). Dale is a great guy to work with and he may would go e you a range of jets to start off with. And to answer your question one single 3" would work. 

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

If I do get the 840 from him im most likely getting my machine work done locally. If I send them from Canada first its gonna cost me $$ for shipping, and I will be out of riding for a long time. Also, If I get the muzzy super pro it will be hard for him to tell me what to start with since there just coming out now. Also, I want to get the most power possible If a 3" Is enough ill do a 3", But if it's better to do a 3" and a 2" then ill do that (read somewhere 3" is better then 2 2" snorkels.)

Also, What will I need to do to my clutch? change weights? If I go 31's Ill be changing to a red sec most likely and keeping my maroon pri as well as servicing it for new "shoes" and maybe some VFJ work. But that will be after the 840, the 29.5 will stay for a while yet.


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

2 - 2"snorks will do better than one 3", alot has to do with where you put the second one in the air box. Really it's a matter of opinion, I believe that the dual 2" will be better. But like was mentioned, dsc's kits come with the cylinders already machined so you wouldn't need to bother with that part of it. I can't speak for the quality of his kits as I have never known anyone that has used one. I'm sure they are just as good quality as any of the other builders kits.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

Don't I need to send my cylinders down to him to get machined??? im confused.


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

You will send him yours as cores and he sends you some jugs with the machining already done with the kit.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

O so I send him my old ones and he sends me some new ones already machined. Still need to know what I would need for clutch work and Is there a kit I can buy for jets or can I only get them individually?

I have to do some thinking on this weather I should send my cyl/cams/sprockets down south and get new stuff or just buy all new stuff and get my own machining done. I do understand now that I send my old stuff down as "cores" and get new stuff + cost of new parts.


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