# Please help break light staying on



## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

First let me say this is a great site and i am enjoying taking in the knowledge. Ok sorry for the ramble but i want to describe exactly whats happening. Ok so i just bought a used 06 brute force 650 sra and i noticed while riding that my brake light (tail light) wasnt working. I bought a replacement bulb (1157) looks exactly the same with two prongs on bottom and all. Well now the brake light is staying on when i turn on the key switch. no the front light switch isnt on lol and its a real bright light so im sure its the brake light not tail. Anyway i read other posts and they said to check the switches. I spent all day checking the handlebar lever switch and foot pedal switch. Both appear to be working perfectly. this atv has obvously never been in the mud its really clean in all cracks and crevices. I used a test light and noted that the two wires going to the front and pedal switch have power running to both of them when the switch is on so i dont thank theres a short anywhere. The switch lever on the pedal pulls the switch completely out and lets it completely back in when let off, the handlebar switch clicks perfeclty when pulled. I would have to say all the wiring is good as i cant see any bad connectors or bad wires anywhere on the atv. Please help. Oh yeah and the atv will start in any gear and i dont have to tough any of the brakes to do this


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## brute for mud (Jul 15, 2010)

did you try to Disconect the foot pedal switch or any of the others one by one


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## Lonewolfe (Jan 25, 2012)

I agree; start disconnecting some of the foot pedal connections one by one. You must have a short in there somewhere. I would start with the switch itself; pull it and get your meter on it to see what it is really doing.


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## DaveMK1 (Nov 8, 2009)

Check your cable adjustment on your left brake lever. Had the same problem on my 08. The cable was just loose enough to where the lever would sag a little keeping the brake light on at all times, but not enough to apply the brake. I used to always leave the parking brake set so I imagine over time the cable stretched.


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

i did on both the pedal and front lever witch. im about 99% positive the right lever is the only one with a switch besides the pedal. the left lever doesnt appear to have ever had a switch on that one. I disconnected the pedal switch completely and the light stayed on. disconnected the two wires on the lever switch and light stayed on. should both wires to both switches have constant power when switch is turned on or should just one wire to each switch have power. and thanks alot for the reply its awesome to know that you can get help from the pros at this stuff.


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

and also dave i did adjust the left brake lever for rear brakes and it was loose now its nice and tight again but still light staying on. sorry guys dont wanna keep taking your time but i really want to figure out whats going on here. i am totally stumped i will put the meter on the wires tomorrow but i figured since both wires were getting power it was correct.


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## DaveMK1 (Nov 8, 2009)

Your left lever has a neutral override switch type thingy. If your bike is in gear, you can pull your left lever a little bit and start the bike in gear. Try putting the bike in gear, pushing the lever forward and starting it. If the bike starts than either that switch is bad or something in that circuit has gone haywire. There is a relay in the electronics tray towards the back of the tray that you should be able to hear click when you pull the lever.

Good luck and let us know what you find.


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## DaveMK1 (Nov 8, 2009)

sorry i didnt see you replied so quickly with your cable adjustment. Can you hear the relay click?


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

just went outside there is no click of a relay, but are you sure the 06 model has that cause i cant see anywhere that any tipe of switch is on the left hand brake lever just the right and pedal. and the bike will start any gear anytime not having to use in brake at all


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## dman66 (Feb 20, 2011)

My 05 750 has the same thing on the front left brake lever.If in gear,you have to pull on the left lever for the quad to start.I've never noticed a switch or needed to look for it,but there is a circuit there somewhere


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

humm ok thanks alot guys, ill have to trace that lever from handle all the way to the rear brake tomorrow to see if thats my problem. theres definately nothing on the lever must be on the cable somewhere below the plastics or something. Ill keep you guys up to date from what i find out tomorrow so we can answer questions to guys that have this problem in the future.


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## No_Substitue_For_A_Brute (May 4, 2011)

rstuder said:


> humm ok thanks alot guys, ill have to trace that lever from handle all the way to the rear brake tomorrow to see if thats my problem. theres definately nothing on the lever must be on the cable somewhere below the plastics or something. Ill keep you guys up to date from what i find out tomorrow so we can answer questions to guys that have this problem in the future.


When I first got my brute the left handle brake cable was frozen. I removed the cable and the handle stayed slightly pulled causing the brake light to stay on. I had to zip tie the handle back to keep the light off. So point is YES the switch is located in the handle itself. Pull the rubber cover back and it should be pretty apparent. I'd get a pic for you but not near my bike for a while.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

do you know if its in the starter switch box on the handlebar somewhere, i definately see the switch on the front brake (right lever) just for the life of me cant find the (left) rear brake lever switch and im pretty mechanically inclined. maybe its in the starter switch box somewhere. and ive pushed my brake lever out as far as i can with no luck


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## No_Substitue_For_A_Brute (May 4, 2011)

I honestly can't remember for sure. I don't think so. Seems like there was just a two separate wires run to the handle base under the rubber.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

yeah thats on the front brake lever (right side) when sitting on the atv at least on mine it is. checked that already its good to go


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

if anyone can check there brute tomorrow and see where this switch is on the (left) side rear brake lever and take a pic i would definately be very very tankfull. ive just traced the cable as far as i could it is a little dark but i tried and see nothing. not talking about the switch on the front brake (right) side ive already seen that one. 
you guys are awesome for replying so fast


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## narfbrain (Sep 25, 2012)

the neutral override switch is tied into the brake in general any brake lever you hit you should be able to start it in gear......you can on my 06......maybe something to do with the neutral override circuit somewhere? or something crossed around the brake circuit somewhere it is definatly your brake light on because the neutral override comes off of your brake light circuit somewhere both front and rear brake switch sends the signal you should not be able to start it in gear without being on foot brake left or right brake handle and rear hand brake is tied into the foot switch (it is only a brake light switch that sends the signal nothing addition that i know of) seems like you have yourself a good ol fashioned electrical problem.......i would say start with your brake switch wiring......you should NOT have power to both wires to either switch which ever on does would be causing your problem trace those wires back if the circuits are tied together and you have power to both wires on both switches than it will be alot tougher but test both while connected then disconnect one and test the other and then both disconnected if thats the case but more than likely you will be able to get it figured no problem....... hopefully anyways.......good luck hope you find something !!!!!!


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

wow thanks a bunch bud. i do have power to both wires on both switches so im just gonna have to remove the plastics, trace the wires back to where ever they go and try to find a short or a bad circuit. that was definately my biggest question on the power to both wires. So im guessing the wires are touching somewhere and causing the short making the light stay on. ill let everyone know what i come up with thanks a bunch.


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

Narfbrain do you think this could posibly tie into the bus connectors in the rear if my atv has them. ive read lots of bad things about the buss connectors


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## narfbrain (Sep 25, 2012)

you bet not a problem hopefully it helps!!!!!


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## narfbrain (Sep 25, 2012)

it is possible but i couldnt really see it but you can check for sure wouldnt hurt normally you will just lose power not to say it couldnt rub through and cross to another wire not too sure really where or how they ran the circuit havent had any electrical problems yet other than the resetable fuse for the fan the terminal rotted off the fuse so havent done a whole lot on the brute to be too familiar with it but......i will have a look tomorrow and see if i turn anything else up.......i personally would probably try starting from the switches back to start with though.....alot less like trying to find a needle in a haystack


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

ok thanks again sounds like a fun day tomorrow


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## narfbrain (Sep 25, 2012)

ya you bet...lol......i have to get another belt tommorrow was out riding till i blew yet another belt lol......had the epi weights in was blowing belts went back to stock was doing good till a long high speed run again and blew my new 3gx i just put in......good thing for belt warranty but will take probably a few weeks to get a belt back.............time for that red secondary to go......no good for the top end just builds too much heat im thinking.....but while im in my belt cover there i will see what i can find on the brake circuit for you.....hopefully you get er though


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## rmax (Nov 21, 2009)

i noticed in a previous thread ,you can start in gear without pulling left brake handle ,i would find the connector for the start in gear switch an unplug it ,sounds to me like its the switch keeping the brake system hot


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## wjpelka (May 23, 2010)

*Switches and lamps...*

There are 3 switches on my 2006 650 4x4i. One at each side of the handle bars and one at the right foot pedal. They are called the Front Brake light switch, Parking Brake light switch and Rear Brake light switch. The first 2 switches have a BLUE and BROWN wire attached to them. The Rear Brake light switch has BLUE W/ WHITE and BROWN.
The tail light assembly has 3 wires going to it. BLUE and RED and BLACK W/ YELLOW. 

One thing to do is remove the lamp from the socket and read voltage from RED to BLACK W/ YELLOW. That is the headlight circuit. Then read from BLUE to BLACK W/ YELLOW. That is the brake Circuit. 

Also need to check that the lamp is correct. The 21/5 that Kawasaki has might not be a 1157. 2 contacts on the bottom and offset, one high and one low, alignment pins are on the 1157. Can't see the configuration on the Kawasaki bulb that I found on the web site.

I just looked at my lamp and it is OEM and has the high-low configuration.

Hope some of this might help.


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## narfbrain (Sep 25, 2012)

good call rmax i do agree that would probably make it hot at the switches


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## wjpelka (May 23, 2010)

*Found a relay that might be the cause...*

Check the Starter Circuit Relay for the brake. Its located under the seat at the rear of the bike, next to the roll over sensor. It has 4 wires on it. BLACK W/ WHITE, BLACK, BLUE, BLACK W/ YELLOW. If the blue has power to it, then one of the switches is made. Unplug them 1 at a time and that will show you which one is bad. IF that doesn't tell you anything, then pull the connector off the relay and check for continuity, 0 ohms, on the relay where the BLACK and the BLACK W/ WHITE wires were attached. IF you get continity there then the contacts are stuck shut. Tap it till it opens and you get a reading of infinity, or just replace the relay...

Hope that helps...


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## wjpelka (May 23, 2010)

*I might be wrong...*

I just looked at the parts breakdown between the 650 SRA and 650 i. The relays are different, so the wires might be different as well as the location. It's hard to believe the difference in the parts layout for almost the same bike.

That said, all the info in my previous post might still help, but I didn't want to seem like a complete idiot. I just retired as an industrial electrician with 43 years experience, with some of that as a Nuclear trained Electrician on a Submarine out of Groton, CT. Finished up with some reserve time and retired as a Chief Electrician...


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## DaveMK1 (Nov 8, 2009)

Here is the wiring schematic for the lighting system on a 05 750 brute. Should almost be identical to what you have. Maybe it will help.

If you become a manual and maps subscriber you can download your service manual. it's only $9 for 2 years. Great investment!


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## DaveMK1 (Nov 8, 2009)

I take that back, just realized you said you have a 650 SRA :34:that is no where near your wiring schematic lol. Researching yours for you now.


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## DaveMK1 (Nov 8, 2009)

There,
This is for a SRA. Looks like all 3 brake switches tie into the start circuit as well


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

wow couldnt have done it without you guys. the neutral overide switch is actually inside the push button starter box on the left side under the brake handle. this ties into the brake switch lines and thus runs off of the brake switches. there are two plastic tabs that hold this nuetral overide switch flush into the starter box. my tabs had broken and when the brake lever is let go it actually pushed the whole switch assembally instead of just pushing the switch. although this wasnt noticable from looking at it, the click at the relay should be heard if this is working properly like another post had mentioned earlier. i believe this may help others in the future because these plastic tabs seem to be very weekly made. I hope i have explained exactly what was wrong for future problems if anyone doesnt understand what i mean just let me know and ill try again.


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## narfbrain (Sep 25, 2012)

glad to know your good to go!!!! thank you for sharing this with us will probably come in handy for someone else one day


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

no thank you and everyone else who posted. also the 1157 bulb is a great replacement bulb for the rear if anyone needs to know its working excatly how it suppose to now that i fixed the switch


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## No_Substitue_For_A_Brute (May 4, 2011)

I knew it was there somewhere on the handle bar! Glad you got it working! :thumbup:

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

yep you were definately right and i think you for telling me about it. i was stuborn and thought you were talking about the two wires going to the break switch on the oposite side but the neutral overide switch also has two wires going to it i do believe they are diferrent color than the break switch though.


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## Brute_29 (Oct 12, 2012)

So I have a dumb question to ask. I am experiencing the same problem of having my tail light stay on while riding. So I started by checking the right brake switch. It has a blue and brown wire with female connectors going into the switch which has male connections. I tested both wires and both wires lit up my test light. I don't think both wires should be hot, but then I got to thinking that I don't know how the switch should work. I know I should know this, and I feel dumb for asking. Should both wires be hot or is my switch bad? Thanks in advance.


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

Both wires should not be hot. There is a neutral override switch on your left hand brake lever hidden inside the starter box. Either that or a short in he wiring.


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## Brute_29 (Oct 12, 2012)

So I need to find the neutral override switch on the left brake lever. Once I find this I will test the wires. If the wires are hot does that mean the switch is bad? If both wires are not hot coming out, will that mean there is a short in the wires?


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

The override ties into the brake switches so if there both got it will be also.the switch is actually pushed in when the brake lever is let go. My switch was lose inside it's housing causing the switch to stay open leaving the brake light on and i was able to start in gear without brakes. The switch has to plastic tabs that hold it in place and mine were broke. Just keep looking it's on there. Also check the light bulb to make sure it's ok


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

also there is a brake switch on the foot pedal that tends to get stuck from mud that i have heard on other posts. Check that and make sure its closing all the way when the pedal is not pushed. but you are right there should not be power to both wires on any of the switches when they are not being used.


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## Brute_29 (Oct 12, 2012)

rstuder said:


> The override ties into the brake switches so if there both got it will be also.the switch is actually pushed in when the brake lever is let go. My switch was lose inside it's housing causing the switch to stay open leaving the brake light on and i was able to start in gear without brakes. The switch has to plastic tabs that hold it in place and mine were broke. Just keep looking it's on there. Also check the light bulb to make sure it's ok


This seems to be my problem also. I took the cable out of its housing and manually pushed the switch in and out and the tail light worked properly, so the switch itself is working. I see the plastic tabs you are talking about, they are junk. My tabs are not broke, but they don't hold the switch in the housing tight. I'm not sure what my options are at this point. The tabs are the culprit for sure, but I'm wondering how to snug the switch into the housing...any ideas? I'm sure a new switch would have the same crappy tabs on them, so I need to find a way to snug the switch into its housing.


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## narfbrain (Sep 25, 2012)

could try silicone or crazy glue to hold it there?


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## Brute_29 (Oct 12, 2012)

narfbrain said:


> could try silicone or crazy glue to hold it there?


I was thinking about something along these lines. It just seems like its a band aid and not a permanent fix. But that may be my only option...


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## Brute_29 (Oct 12, 2012)

Maybe I could try some wire zip ties...or a hose clamp? That is if the hose clamp won't crack the housing...


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## narfbrain (Sep 25, 2012)

can you put something in behind it to stop it from pushing the whole thing back?


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## rstuder (Oct 2, 2012)

Lol i just used electric tape wrapped around the handle and switch real tight and when the rubber boot is slid back over it looks normal. Yeah i know ******* fix but it works and isn't noticeable


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## Devob1982 (8 mo ago)

rstuder said:


> wow couldnt have done it without you guys. the neutral overide switch is actually inside the push button starter box on the left side under the brake handle. this ties into the brake switch lines and thus runs off of the brake switches. there are two plastic tabs that hold this nuetral overide switch flush into the starter box. my tabs had broken and when the brake lever is let go it actually pushed the whole switch assembally instead of just pushing the switch. although this wasnt noticable from looking at it, the click at the relay should be heard if this is working properly like another post had mentioned earlier. i believe this may help others in the future because these plastic tabs seem to be very weekly made. I hope i have explained exactly what was wrong for future problems if anyone doesnt understand what i mean just let me know and ill try again.


Thanks!! Used the info. Looked forever till I found your post.


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## Lun_91 (7 mo ago)

Devob1982 said:


> Thanks!! Used the info. Looked forever till I found your post.


It's very useful when old threads are revived and contain good info


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