# I'm a newbie that is in over his head...can anyone help



## ssever121

I've got a 2000 Honda rancher 350 4x4 es. I got it for a steal. First bike I've ever bought. It's sittin on 27" outlaws. It's got a snorkel, a 2" lift, a clutch kit and a brand new top end because the last guy used it as a submarine. 

I replaced the piston, rings, valves, and bored the head 30 over. I put it all back together today and it's got a fast tap from the top end. I took it back apart and re adjusted the valves. That wasnt the problem cause when i put it back together again it was not any better. It also seems to be taking far too many rpm's to get moving. Any ideas on what i should check next. 
Oh i also blew out the weep holes for oil to drip onto the valves and no blockages. I opened the cover and started the motor. Then poured oil directly onto the valves but that didn't quiet it at all. Is there a break in period in which these should sound bad or what? What about the high rpm's? Any ideas? Any help u can offer would be great, this makes the second trip i will have missed cause i can't figure this crap out.


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## Polaris425

High RPMs is probably high stall in the clutch kit.


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## ssever121

Thanks..why would somebody want that. What is the pro side to that?


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## crwBrute7504x4I

It helps get the tires to spin in thick mud


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## walker

do you have a shop manual or you just winging it


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## ssever121

Oh that makes sense crwbrute. Thanks

---------- Post added at 06:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 AM ----------

Walker, I gotta Clymer manual...read a little work a little kinda thing.


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## CRAZYCRACKAZ71

do u have a mic to mic valves? what are ur valves set at when motors at top dead center. ur intakes suppose to be 0.04 and ya exhaust is suppose to be 0.05


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## ssever121

My clymer didn't say what to set the valves to so i youtubed it and set them both to .006 with a feeler gauge. U think that is the problem?


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## CRAZYCRACKAZ71

I think u set them wrong. Try setting them again with the filler gauge to the stock settings 004 for intake and 005 for exhaust. Try that and see what it does


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## narfbrain

i personally found that the valves on my honda when set on the timing mark were loud....to quiet them up i set it the old fashioned way.....i used a screwdriver to find tdc and they were quiet as a church mouse...your clutch will not be making that noise its a centrifical wet clutch its kind of like a brake drum that grabs as momentum pushes the weights out and they grab.....I'm not sure why but even before i rebuilt it it had loud valves (not really loud but still here them) and when i set them to the timing marks still loud i would try doing it the old fashioned way....yours is .006 on both intake and exhaust so that should be right......also with your clutch engagement what do you mean way too high? does it just kind of keep slipping or just rev up and grab because that would be normal with a clutch kit also i know people will have problems with their clutch slipping when using the wrong weight of oil as it is a wet clutch so not using the right oil will allow the clutch to slip in the clutch drum too much or not provide enough resistance and wear out or warp the drum also burning the material off the clutch weights etc. so i would be sure you are using the correct weight and an actual motorcycle oil so as that it is designed to work with a wet clutch.....hope that helps and your not having problems with a piston clearance issue etc. i assume when you say you had the "head" bored .030 over you are talking about the cylinder.....did you just have it bored .030 over or did you have it matched to your piston also you replaced your valves did you lap your valves or have someone else do it? it is fairly important to do when using new and old parts together or even if you just pull the valves out and put them back in as they will rarely be in the same position.....however if it is your valves it should be evident just off idle as well......hope i helped you out some and keep up on here what you have found......


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## ssever121

Thanks a bunch guys. I will try resetting the valves the old fashioned way and changing the oil today to see if that helps. 
Narfbrain, I had the valves, piston, and cylinder professionally done. I just had to reinstall them(circlips were a b) I did set off the tdc mark. I will try it the old fashioned way. When i say that the bike is running high rpm's before it actually goes that's pretty much it. It revved up real high then finally stared moving and didn't feel as if it had any power till the higher rpms like a power band or something. As far as whether is slipping our not i really don't know what that feels like. I can tell you that when i hit second gear it hit pretty hard so I'm thinking it's not slipping. I'm thinking it's the stall converter or whatever is actually in there.


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## narfbrain

ok so basically with the clutch kit you whack the go stick and it should set you back on the seat.....it should hit very hard in about the first 3 gears ESPECIALLY in first if your losing like you say you are something is wrong.......when you hit the throttle it should not dog it will stall about 2-300 rpm past stock on average depending on your clutch kit but at that point should basically be able to lift the front tires for a short period (very short being a small honda but the power should be there) hondas being a 1 lung machine are basically a torque monster when done right and they dont have alot else going for them this would concern me and bring me back to the question of what oil you are running because a clutch kit in a wet centrifical system is essentially bullet proof asides from running the wrong oil or actually having the weight pads worn off or the clutch drum worn out and not getting proper friction from having someone else before you running improper oil etc. but that is all fairly unlikely at the end of the day to have the weights worn off or the drum would probably have alot more to do with running a conventional oil in the wrong weight....what are you running for oil?........i would have concerns and would really like to know a little more what your clutch is doing exactly...... the more information you can give and be honest what you have done in the rebuild the better i can help you i have made alot of mistakes with my machines before and it just helps with knowledge that i try to share with you now lol......but it does seem for sure that you are having a clutch issue and not just a clutch stall.......also depending on how high of rpms you are talking about this ticking comes in could also be valve float but either way you do have to give yourself a good and proper breakin as hard as it is(trust me with my hondas hc bb it was HARD to do) but you need to do it.......but anyways would really like some more info on whats happening with your clutch and any info you can give.....hope i can help you out......look forward to talking to you bud


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## ssever121

Narfbrain I'm not sure what oil is in the bike now but what I'm fixin to put in it is the stud from the dealership and it's viscocity is 10w40. It says for wet clutches on the can. 
A far as the rebuild goes. I got the bike with the rings washedout and blowing straight oil out the pipe. I dismantled the bike down to engine only left in the frame pretty much and removed the while top end including piston. I took the cylinder, piston, and head work the valves in it to a local trusted machine shop. They bored the cylinder, got me an oversized piston, rings and put in a new set of valves. I oh and they ez outed a valve civer bokt out for me. I got it all back and put it all back together and forget to space the valves. So i pulled it back apart and broke another valve cover bolt off. I bought an ez out and promptly broke it off down in the hole. I sent the head off to be edm'd and received it back in a few days ago. I put it all back together adjusted the valves probably five different times before i gave up for the day. I did drive it just to see if it would quiet down but it never did. On this test drive us when i found it to be dogging. I called the previous owner and he said that it was probably the clutch kit. I think it's probably the oil like u said and as far as the rattling valves I'm still not to sure what to do but try adjusting them again. I'm about to change the oil now and put in the atv oil and test drive it again. Then I'm gonna tackle these valves and I'll let you know what the situation looks like. 
When u say "proper" break in what do u mean exactly?
Thanks for all ur help!


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## ssever121

Ok the oil solved the slipping our whatever it was!!! Now for the valves


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## narfbrain

oil does alot of things for the motor lol......now have you tried using a small screwdriver to find tdc and you are setting it on a compression stroke right?


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## ssever121

Yep sure does...oh and when i pulled the oil filter cover off i found that there wasn't even an oil filter in there...smh! I haven't had time to try the screw driver method yet but I'm going to get it tonight. I'll let ya know when i do get time how it goes. I also found that the recoil starter is frozen up from being full of mud so I'm trying to find one of those now too. I think i know why this bike was so cheap but by the time i get through it I'm gonna know this thing like the back if my hand and hopefully have a good dependable bike to boot.


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## narfbrain

at the end of the day you just cant beat a honda for reliability....get er worked out give er some love and im sure you will have a great bike just do everything right the first time you shouldnt have a problem at all


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## ssever121

Yep I'm starting to get a little better at tearing this for wheeler apart. It took me 47 minutes to go from it all the way put together to having the head off of it and tools cleaned up. Lol
I stripped out the hole that the machine shop removed the broken bolt lt and ez out from. Evidently they retapped it bad or something. Gonna put in a helicoil and I'll be riding by this weekend hopefully.


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## narfbrain

right on good to hear buddy


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## ssever121

Ok so today i got all my parts in and put back on. I was able to use the old fashioned method to get to tdc. I found our from the guy at RPM Motorsports that I was seeing the valves too high thus the chatter. I rest to his recommended 0.002(loose) for intake and 0.003(right) for exhaust and she is pouring like a kitten. Me and my son rode all over today and he really likes pulling wheelies...small ones of course. Thanks for all of y'all who helped me out, especially narfbrain!


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## Cal3bCart3r

sorry i didn't get to have any input but good to see you got things back running smooth ...hope you enjoy many of rides with the honda!


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## narfbrain

ssever121 said:


> Ok so today i got all my parts in and put back on. I was able to use the old fashioned method to get to tdc. I found our from the guy at RPM Motorsports that I was seeing the valves too high thus the chatter. I rest to his recommended 0.002(loose) for intake and 0.003(right) for exhaust and she is pouring like a kitten. Me and my son rode all over today and he really likes pulling wheelies...small ones of course. Thanks for all of y'all who helped me out, especially narfbrain!


only thing i would be concered with is that you are too tight....yes your valves are quiet but thats because you are to tight your rockers cannot slam around and make the valve noise especially with new valves they will start to wear into the head next thing you know your valves will not be closing and they will be burnt before you break your rebuild in......they wont get any tighter during break in except that you have new valves in an old head so they have to mesh together and break in to each other and i dont think there just isnt enough clearance right now to do that......im almost dead sure you are supposed to be .006 intake and exaust (maybe talk to your local honda dealer) i find if you use the honda timing marks they are always loud and the screwdriver never lies so i would go to that setting your valves the same way using a screwdriver to find your tdc and come your first or second service set them again just to be sure and you will be good to go from there you should reset your valves to spec (if im wrong on .006 someone please chime in) as you are running them too tight a loose valve is a power valve......to tight will cause damage if they stop closing completely.....burnt valves valve seals etc. but the important part congrats on getting er going glad i could help out


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## ssever121

Sorry it's been s while since i logged in to check on the forums. I've got everything sorted out now and running really good. Made friends with a local ATV mechanic and we looked the bike over together and agree that everything is looking good. Now I'm setting my ride up with some tunes and a backrest to hold all my stuff and give my little one a comfortable place to sit while riding. I do think though that I'm going to start working on setting up a trade to get some skinny laws to help get the back tires moving a bit more. Also still have to work on sealing up the pull start and put dielectruc grease in all my electrical connections. Thanks again


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