# rode through mud, now handle shakes and hard to turn - why!?



## mystical_ice (Nov 19, 2009)

So went out two nights ago, and went through some mud. Not too deep, and definately not deeper than anything i've been through in the past, but this mud had a lot of plants and stuff growing in it, so when we came out after a few minutes of playing in it, underneath our fourwheelers there were pieces of plants and thin skinny roots hanging down.

Anyway, right after that we got onto a straightaway and i got up to 20mph or so, and noticed the handlebar started shaking wildly. I also noticed as i was slowing down (handles still shaking) that it was almost impossible to turn. Kind of the same feeling when you try to turn the wheels when you've got the front diff locked, you know. well i had a friend hit the gas hard in reverse on the sane just to make sure it was only spinning the back wheels, and it was, so it wasn't that 4wd was engaged. after i got back on, the bike was fine, and then occasionally throughout the night it would start shaking again, and i'd just slow down, then speed up and it would be fine. that night i power washed it down well, and put it back in the shed

well the next night (yesterday) i got it out and drove it to the gas station (about .5miles) to fill it with gas. it involves driving the entire distance on a paved road out of my neighborhood, and i usually drive it about 30mph. well about 500 feet into the journey, it starts shaking all over again. again, i slowed down, tried turning the wheel, and had trouble. came to a stop, got out, looked it over, and then started driving again, and it was fine. well halfway there again, it just starts all over again. 

what do you think it could be? i looked it over and it's physically in great condition. there's nothing visibly wrong with it. it feels almost like the alignment is way off or something, but it only does it sometimes, not all the time.

someone at the park told me "there's mud on the inside of the rim". i initially thought he meant on the inside-facing side of the rim (as in, where the calipers and brake system is), so i sprayed it out with water when i got home and made sure there was no mud there.

what i think he meant though, is that mud somehow got INSIDE the rim... between rim and tire. that could definately affect the alignment if it all 'sloshes' to one side when i'm driving. could that be it? how would that happen though, and is there any way to confirm without taking the tire off?

By the way - this is a 2007 brute force 750i. i've always taken extreme care of it (i mean washing and wiping it down within a few hours after each ride, changing front and rear diff fluids after going mudding, etc.)


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Are you hard on the front brakes? Or do you ride in sand a lot? My first thought is that your pads are wore down to metal, they are heating up against the rotor & grabbing the rotor (on 1 side) which would be why its "shaking" or grabbing.

However, this shouldn't make it hard to turn the bars. So throwing that in there, my next guess is that you have something loose. Either the tie-rods or hub.


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## Guarino113 (Oct 3, 2009)

> Polaris425:
> 
> However, this shouldn't make it hard to turn the bars. So throwing that in there, my next guess is that you have something loose. Either the tie-rods or hub.


thats what i was thinkin that something may be loose. or maybe a bent tie rod.


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## 650Brute (Dec 18, 2008)

I've had junk caked at the base of the steering stem, resulting in my brute not turning AT ALL. Get the hose out, let us know.


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## Hangingfor8 (Oct 3, 2009)

When my diff started to go it acted much like that. I'd look at the fluid and go from there.


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

yeah like those guys said... check tierods, steering shaft, and front diff... also maybe a bent rim? or a bad hub bearing...


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## mystical_ice (Nov 19, 2009)

thanks for all the replies. just wanted to answer some questions...

my front brakes are awesome, but i don't use them that much, and they still grip great, so i don't think they're worn down. also, this will happen after i start it out and get on the road, and haven't even pressed the brakes yet.

a bent rim - i don't know if that's it, because this problem happens sporadically. it will drive just fine some of the time. seems to be happening more often though.

i don't know how to check tie rods or anything else. do i just make sure things look tight in the front end?

i changed the front diff fluid about 3 rides ago (so less than 8 hours and less than 50 miles since the last fluid change). one thing i HAVE noticed is that the last few times when i engage 4wd, sometimes it won't engage; it'll stay at '2wd' on the display and i won't hear the click for about 25 feet. sometimes i'll flip it back to 2wd and then 4wd, and it'll go in.

i keep the atv clean - it's never had mud caked on it for more than 12 hrs after a ride, so there's no mud on the bike. there's probably about a cup of caked mud on the entire bike, in places it's hard to get to, but otherwise it's really clean

another buddy of mine said for me to jack the front of the bike up, and then grab hold of the front left wheel and see if i can wiggle it or if there's any play. then try the other one. i haven't had a chance to do that yet


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

Yeah, lift the front and wiggle the wheels... this will tell you if your wheel bearings are bad, or if the tierods are loose.. if the tire moves and nothing else does, then the bearings are bad and you need to change them before they go out completely while you are driving 30mph that could be bad... 

since it doesn't do it all the time, it seems like it's a wheel bearing or something in the diff... cuz if the bearing lines up just right it will spin fine, until it falls out of line again...


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## mystical_ice (Nov 19, 2009)

i lifted the front end up, as was suggested (threw the winch cable over a tree branch and hoisted it up), and checked for play in the front wheels. there isn't any. i mean, the wheels will move like 1/2" either way, but i think that's normal... everything underneath seems to be nice and tight

i'm running out of ideas.

would it help if i took a couple of pictures of the front suspension of the bike so you could maybe tell me if something looks out of place?

the CV boots are in good condition all around by the way


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Did you grab & shake the axles too? You could have a busted cup.

If there's a 1/2" of play on your tie rods, thats a bad thing... I dont understand about where the play is could you explain? Do you mean "rolling" play before the diff stops the tire from turning?


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## bear (Apr 20, 2009)

also if it is cold were u are i might have hard spots in the tires witch can lead to tire shake when thay are cold it goes away when thay are warn


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

Yeah, 1/2" of "play" is not good... you need to determine where the slack is coming from... MIMB needs a how to video on this... LOL :bigeyes:


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## mystical_ice (Nov 19, 2009)

i tried the same thing on my c6 z06 and it has the same amount of play, so i really doubt that's the problem, but then again, one's designed to go 190mph, and do 1.05G on the skidpad, the other's designed to go over rocks, so i don't know :/

i'm going to winch it up again this afternoon and take a short video clip of the amount of play it has, so you can see.


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## mystical_ice (Nov 19, 2009)

i'm a big fan of documenting. if i have a problem and fix it, then i'll be sure to document everything, or video it, so that MIMB can have a how-to write-up


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## bump530 (Jan 5, 2009)

it sounds like u might have a cracked cage in one of your axle cups. my uncles did the same thing.


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## mystical_ice (Nov 19, 2009)

Check this video out. i recorded ita few minutes ago




 
as i was recording it i noticed a hole in the front left CV boot. in the video you'll see me trying to shake the front left wheel, then i notice the CV boot hole, zoom in on it, then move to the front right and try shaking that wheel

note the reason the underside of it is so dirty is because i rode it for a little bit before winching it up the tree, to see if i could replicate the problem - i couldn't :/

after letting it down from the tree, i took it for a 10min drive at 25mph, and it ran just fine. no shaking.

QUESTION - first, how imperative is it that i replace this right now? can i get one or two more rides out of it? or will that damage it even more?
second, i don't have the tools to remove this (i watched a video how-to on how to remove it and clean the bearing, and i have no idea how to do it), so what's my next option? how much would the dealer charge to fix it? i can't afford a whole lot either 
third, could this be the reason that i'm having the shaking and hard to turn every so often? or is that another problem probably?


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## Guarino113 (Oct 3, 2009)

with that hole in there it may have something in it moving around causing it do that. if everything else seems fine thats prolly what it is. its really not that hard to remove them when you get started. its just messy. if that is the problem and you clean it out good and catch it quick the boot is only bout 15 bucks. it may be another problem but you should go ahead and fix that before it gets worse. bearings mud and dirt dont go good together.


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## mystical_ice (Nov 19, 2009)

OK where do i get the boot from, and what's involved in getting it off? i notice that the front has the whole brake assembly (disk and caliper and brake line), so i'm assuming that makes it more difficult to remove? 

is this something i can do with 'basic' tools? (i.e. ratchet set, pliers, vice grip, a knife, etc)?


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## Guarino113 (Oct 3, 2009)

i get the boots off ebay. ive changed three and they are all holding up. its always a stock one that rips. do you have a repair manual? i downloaded mine off the internet. its been a long time since ive done the front. i think there is a nut on the end of the axel when you take the wheel off. take that off and you may have to unbolt the knuckle. (not sure) then the axel should just come out. the only special tools you need is snap ring pliers. and for the boot clamp you need a special tool but you could take it to your local car garage and they should have one. its the same thing for cars.


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## mystical_ice (Nov 19, 2009)

OK well i ordered a pair of snap ring pliers, a band tool for the CV boot, and, of course, a CV boot off ebay as you suggested.

The bad thing, is unfortunately i need to go on a ride on Wednesday night... probably 4 hours of riding tops, and not a WHOLE lot of mud, but there definately will be some, and definately water too. in the meantime i was going to just put a bead of silicone in there and see if that'll seal it. not sure what else to do, but i don't think another 4hrs of riding will really damage it any more than it is already will it?

what might happen though with the joint with a broken CV boot? it's not physically dangerous to ride it like that is it?


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## Guarino113 (Oct 3, 2009)

well...i went in a mud hole and my cv joint started popping. got out, went to the creek and rode and it seemed fine. popped every now and then. we rode for about another 2-3 hours. i still went in mud holes and creeks with a hole in my boot. it slung grease anywhere. i took my chances with it. but i wasnt gonna stop riding. went home and took it apart and cleaned it and greased it and its like new. so i guess it all depends on how bad it is. you should be ok as long as no rocks or anything get in it but i dont want to tell you that you will and then it fail. just have to take a chance i guess.


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