# maroon primary not real impressed



## smokin_6.0 (Jun 21, 2009)

I really cant tell that big of a difference. I was kind of hoping for more of a wheelie machine but it wont pull the front end without a little pull back on the bars. Would a different secondary help? I have a jet kit here waiting to go in and i hope it will help it a little as well since it is kinda hesitant off idle.

Thanks


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

What bike and what are ur mods?


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## DrillersGoDeeper (Jan 3, 2009)

^ what he said...


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## smokin_6.0 (Jun 21, 2009)

its a 650 sra w/ dyna ignition box, snorkels, 26" 589 m&s, c series wheels. Think im gonna get a new belt and check for glazing.


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Yeah it sounds like deflection is off ,If you are still unhappy order a Pink primary spring that will put the wheels in the air for sure, And a SRA brute dont stand up as easy as a IRS brute ,Suspension geometry is different


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Your secondary will help your wheeling more... did you leave the stock secondary in it??


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes, the secondary probably needs tweaking.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Maroon and yellow raise my wheels on concrete.


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

I would upgrade the secondary...The Maroon should be plenty of Primary to lift the front...I am running a Maroon Pri with an Almond Sec and I pull the 29.5 Laws up easy in Hi Range


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

my bro in law has a almond secondary with 28 zillas and it pulled up easy but once he put in the maroon it stays on the back rack lol so im thinking keep the maroon and put a different secondary in it and you will be more then happy. try that then get back to us on your opinion. i recommend a almond secondary with the tires you got it should give you more then enough bottom end and still cruise at 60-65mph


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

yeah I love my maroon.... I can wheelie from rollin 20mph...  And thats w/ a black secondary, which, is basically a stock spring just EPI brand :rockn:


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I just installed a maroon primary and lime green secondary. I'm not to impressed with it either. Dont get me wrong, I like the stall and all but I cant get the front wheels off the ground to save my life. And since the install my brute will only top out around 38-40 mph (and yes I am running in hi range). From all that I read on here, I was expecting alot more. The part that has got me scratching my head is the HUGE loss of top end I had.


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

something is wrong with your bike then because I can do that with 31 outlaws.


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

something def isnt right there. i wouldnt know where to start checking either with that unless it is do to your deflection and belt slipping, but you would know that i would think. you should be doing mid 50's with the lime green. someone will chime in to help you out though


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

If you weren't so far up north I would handle up on that for you. Come to Mudstock and we will get it right.


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## LiL Buddy (Apr 27, 2009)

My will tap out at 50 but it is screaming and I have the pink primary and the lime green scondary


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Thanks Masher. I like that "so far up north", I hear that alot. LOL! I think I found the problem, I'm thinking my deflection is off. The cooling ribs on the belt are riding below the outer edge of the sheeves. According to the thread in the how-to section, I need to remove a shim. I'm going to deglaze my sheeves while I have it all apart just for good measure. To me, this would explain why the wheelie power isnt there but I dont understand the whole deal with the loss of so much top end. I did have one concern while I was installing the secondary spring, the spring itself didnt seem like it fit properly in each spring cup. It was almost like to spring diameter was larger than the cup and it took some "motivation" to get the spring to seat all the way down in the cup. I watched the "how to" video on this before I started and that secondary spring went in alot easier than mine did. It is a genuine EPI spring not something from ebay or anything. I was just curious if anyone else had ran into this too. Thanks alot guys for all your input, Thats what I like about this forum and the people here. Ya'll are willing to jump right in and help.


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

smokin_6.0 said:


> its a 650 sra w/ dyna ignition box, snorkels, 26" 589 m&s, c series wheels. Think im gonna get a new belt and check for glazing.


I have a 2008 650 SRA EPI Maroon primary & Black secondary with 26" ITP XTR's and I have no problem with wheelies. I would difinatly agree with checking the belt condition and the sheive's for glazing. Once you have done this, set the deflection and you should be doing wheelies very easy.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

yes. lime green are a ***** to get in the cups. everyone has that problem


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

yeah get that belt deflection right and you will notice the change... if you still cant wheelie, then, you just arnt doin something right...  lol


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

phishy is right those lime greens are a pain to get in the cups but those are the only ones that do that, some people even sent them back to epi for sure it wasnt the right spring lol


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Well that takes a load off my mind to know that I'm not the only one that was having problems with the spring cups. Once my coffee kicks in and I get up the motivation, I'm going to tear it all back down and set the deflection. I know that has got to be the problem, just dont see how the belt got that loose in only 300 miles.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

stretchyness......


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Yeah get the deflection right. It will make a difference for sure.

Now this is just my opinion so you don't have to pay it any attention but you do not need that strong of a secondary spring.Too strong of a spring is useless.All its going to do is rob you of performance. I'm running the 28 Zillas with a Dalton Plain Purple and it works great.Zero belt problems so far. The EPI almond is what i would suggest you be using.Its just a little stronger the the Dalton i'm running but not much. Just my 2 cents. A lot of people don't agree with me.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

i do!


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I will definitely take that into consideration. I'm not too thrilled about the fact that my engine is revving so high and only doing 35 mph. I rode it again this morning just to see what kinda speed I was looking at here, at 40 mph the engine is SCREAMING.  That just means unnecessary engine wear not to mention crappy fuel mileage to me. I'm about to get started on the tear down to fix the deflection.


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

Are you spinning the tires when you're not getting it up?


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

thats what I thought was happening too. I tried it out again today in the daylight and the wheels arent spinning. Tried it on the grass and street. I also cant get more than 38 mph whitout the engine sounding like she's fixing to come apart. I dont know exactely what RPM the 750 redlines at but I'm not comfortable with it running that high just to cruise at 30-35 mph.


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

To me it sounds like you are down on power. I wonder if it's binding and not shifting out. That's just all wrong.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Power feels the same, still pulls as strong as it did with the stock secondary spring. I dont know what would cause it not to shift out. Everything went back together as it came apart(I am pretty mechanically inclined,lol). This is the first CVT tranny I've ever dealt with and it doesnt seem too complicated to me. I know I put everything back in exactely as it came out. I was thinking maybe it was the secondary spring binding because of the way it was fitting in the spring cups but everyone on here says thats how these lime green springs are.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

They are like that. Ive done 2 separate lime greens and they both didnt fit in the cups quite right.


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## Jaybird750 (Jan 21, 2009)

Just for comparrison I have a 09 750 maroon primary, almond secondary and 28" zillas and Im still running 64-65 mph.And all you have to do is snap the throttle and the front is straight up without pulling on the bars.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

phreebsd said:


> They are like that. Ive done 2 separate lime greens and they both didnt fit in the cups quite right.


 me too =/ i tried sanding the paint off, no luck. big *** hammer fixed it


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Big *** hammer will fix a lot :haha:


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Well now I'm officially pissed. I checked the deflection and it was off(according to the written "how to" on changing the secondary spring). I removed a shim and brought the belt up in the sheave. Deglazed both the primary and secondary sheaves, clean them and applied grease to the inner workings of the secondary. Front wheels still wont come off the ground no matter how hard I yank the bars and rev limiter kicks in at 40 mph on the dot. I go back and tear it down again. I remove the other shim. The belt is riding in the secondary EXACTELY like the picture where the guy has his and he says he likes running them kinda tight. Well now it squeals like HELL and same results as above. The engine dies when I put it in gear bc the **** belt is too tight. I mean serious, WTF?! :aargh4: Its not down on power because it gets to 40 mph really quick and throws some serious rooster tails after i get going but there isnt that low end snap to get the front end up. I give up for today, it's time to start drinking.


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

You have Over clutched your machine . I would re-evaluate what spring YOU need for your riding needs , You are experincing the Less quick result of a spring change 1st I would look into some heavier weight to get the primary to react correctly then go down about 2 steps on secondary to get the response you are lookin for . Stiffest springs dont mean best perf.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

You are probably correct. I'm looking for all around performance is why I chose the lime green. From all that I have read it seemed like the best choice to turn those 28's in the thick stuff and still have some top end to cruise. I'm thinking, now that I'm calm and had a few beers, that maybe the spring is not seating ALL the way down in the spring cups. I'm going to tear it down again and take a picture of the spring installed in the secondary and see what you guys think.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I mean seriously, I should be getting more than 40 mph out of this thing.......


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

I get 45+ in low range


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

thats exactely what I mean, my rev limiter kicks in at 40mph and I'm in high range. :thinking:


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

28 inch mudlites are not heavy....with a Lime Green you should pull the front end up at 15 mph. I run 28 SIlverbacks with a Lime Green secondary and do great with it. Something is not right somwhere. Just not sure where...lol


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

i should have been paying attention. that lime green is way too much. 
you should go with a black secondary.
even so i would think the machine should wheelie.
im running a dang yellow that dont let that secondary open up any and i can pull em.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Yeah the black is near the same numbers as the Dalton spring i'm running. And it works like a charm. Still i think the almond would work really good as well.

Either way not sure whats going on with not being able to get the front up. That should not be a problem for sure.

You sure the belt is not slipping? Are the tires spinning? Is it bogging out of the hole?


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Maybe it is just spinning instead of gripping. I know I can throw one hell of a rooster tail in the drive way. The problem I have with this is the 40 mph top speed, we ride alot of dirt roads in between pipelines and swamp bottoms. I cant keep up just being able to do 40 and that being at the rev limiter. i just dont like the wear that its going to put on the engine running that spring. I may try the black spring or maybe even an almond one. Oh by the way, that map works great phreebsd. Thanks alot.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Get the almond. You will be pleased


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## 08GreenBrute (Jul 13, 2009)

i will be running maroon/almond with 28" mudlites tomorrow so i will let you know how it works out


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Yes please let me know. If you still keep your top end then I'm ordering an almond tomorrow. I'm still not sure why it wont wheelie, the front comes up like it wants to but the wheels wont come off the ground. It has to be the wheels spinning or worst case the belt still slipping. I know I didnt buy this thing to ride wheelies and jump stuff but every once in a while its nice to know that you can if you want. I'm probably going to put the stock secondary back in tomorrow for the weekend. Lots of rain around here in the last week or so. The bottoms and swamps are full and I'm not missing out on that over a spring.


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## RDWD (May 11, 2009)

Silly question here but what would happen if you over tightened the secondary past the recommened 68 fp would that cause this lack of wheelie power. Im not trying to say that you messed that up Im just curios to know what would happen. Im running an almond secondary with 27 lites and can wheelie if I pull up on the bars.


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## kawa650 (Dec 19, 2008)

When I had 28s, i was running an almond and could wheelie with ease, if I remember right with my 650 it would run 55 by speedo, but i had a brite green primary in it also but ran great with that setup!!


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

Something isn't right and I don't think it would be your spring sitting in there, but I will say this probably won't fix it but still I would get that lime out and go to a different spring just from passed experience. I don't like how that spring is with any tires


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## 08GreenBrute (Jul 13, 2009)

i actually have the springs in now with stock tires and Ive still been up to 63 and that was the end of the straight away, it had more in it so with the 28's it would run faster than that. if your worried about top end the almond does not take a lot away


RDWD that a good question i was wondering the same thing


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

If you overtighten it you will know it right away because the fins on the back will grind against the case. If you don't stop quick you will need a handy dandy repair.


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## RDWD (May 11, 2009)

word


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

Actually, the bird is either equal to or greater than the word.﻿


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)




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## RDWD (May 11, 2009)

Youre a jack but. The resident A hole is gonna get ya. HAHA just kidding P.


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

Masher that's my fav song hahaha but really I do have that on my iPod to annoy ppl when riding lol


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## 1bigforeman (Jun 23, 2009)

I just took off my almond sec./maroon pri. setup for my 28 laws and with a little pull, it would come up. I liked the setup...no problems with belts and would pull. I now have the yellow and kept my maroon for my 31's. Haven't been able to try it out since I put it together though. You don't need that big of a spring. I was suggested the almond with laws. With mudlites you should be able to use the almond or smaller....While you are in there, hit your clutch sheaves with some steel wool to rough them up and check the belt deflection.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I scuffed them up with some 400 grit, just enough to take off the glazing. I ordered an almond spring this morning. I plan on getting some 30's or 31's in the near future so I'll just run the almond until then.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Masher, if your from bham then you know what i know. It was played on a certain radio station EVERY FLIPPIN MORNING. remember?


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Masher said:


> If you overtighten it you will know it right away because the fins on the back will grind against the case. If you don't stop quick you will need a handy dandy repair.


he said overtighten the Secondary. not the primary.
it will still open normally as you are tightenin the non-moveable sheave.


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

I think its your primary spring. I liked the maroon in my Brute but then I didnt in my Teryx. My Brute used to flatten out on top end with a red primary, sounds like what your experiencing with the maroon. Leave your lime green in and put your stock primary back in and try it.


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

I put almond secondary and pink primary in my dad's 08 and it does great with 30" mudlites on it. I haven't ran the lime and pink in mine yet, its in there just haven't ran it. Mine pulled the lime and maroon great but I have dual airbox snorks, hmf and dynatek which means its pulling a little more power.


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

phreebsd said:


> he said overtighten the Secondary. not the primary.
> it will still open normally as you are tightenin the non-moveable sheave.


Doh, I'm an idiot. Thanks.


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

Polaris425 said:


> Masher, if your from bham then you know what i know. It was played on a certain radio station EVERY FLIPPIN MORNING. remember?


 
I graduated in 92 and haven't lived there since but I visit regularly. The folks are still there. What station?


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## 08GreenBrute (Jul 13, 2009)

well i took mine for a test ride with the new tires and it spins a little then at about 5 foot out it comes up. i think the maroon has to much stall making it spin of the line. other than that its great


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I should have my almond spring in around wednesday. Now the whole situation has changed. I was at the local mudpit yesterday and I came across a deal I couldnt refuse. I picked up an almost brand new set of 28" silverbacks for a hell of deal. Would ya'll still recommend the almond secondary for these tires?


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

i would


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

good deal. I'm really liking the maroon primary so far. Takes some getting used to when loading it up in the back of the truck. My wife is still waiting for me to put it through the back glass, lol.


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## 08GreenBrute (Jul 13, 2009)

^^^ if your try to pop yours up for a wheelie does it spin or just wheelie? i tried mine in the grass and it still spun then stood up


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm running the maroon primary.I cant keep the front down even if i try when i punch it WOT from a stop.

Makes it hard to race.

I do have the VDI which makes it even more obvious but it would still do that with out it.Just not as bad. I could some what hold it down.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Mine mostly spins. I let some air out of the tires and now its standing up.


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## 08GreenBrute (Jul 13, 2009)

i need to let some air out of mine and try it


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

i can stand my bro in law up from a a stand still then punch it comes up like nothing sometimes comes up more then ya want, then you know it cuz your messing up the brand new sod with your rack lol


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Well I went to give the guy the money for those 28" backs and he backed out on selling them, must have just been the bud light talking saturday when he was wanting to sell them. So I said the hell with it and bought some brand new 29.5 outlaws(skinnys and wides). I have an almond spring on the way now, just going out on a limb here but I guess I would be better off using the lime green secondary with the 29.5's, right?


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Yes the Lime would be a better choice for those heavy tires but you still need to figure out whats going on in your tranny. Theres no way you should be hitting the rev limiter at 40 with the lime green and maroon springs.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Maybe the limegreen spring is not setting all the way down in the cup. May be your primary weights are sticking and not compressing the clutch all the way closed.I don't know what it is but something is not right.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I agree with you there. I'm tightening every thing to 69 ft/lbs and I know the torque wrench is true because I just had it calibrated from snap-on. The deflection is within spec, actually a lil on the tight side. No strange noises coming from the tranny or anything of that nature. I forgot to take a pic of how the spring was riding in the larger of the two spring cups. It looks like to me that maybe the spring is catching on the lip of the cup and not compressing like it is suppose to. It is seated in the larger spring cup but there is a place on the spring that has rubbed the paint off of it and you can tell that it is making contact with the edge of the cup and actually catching on the spring instaed of compressing down inside the cup. Maybe this is the problem. I'm really out of ideas of what else it could be, I know I'm putting everything back together right.


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## wood butcher (May 11, 2009)

u might like the red better . i had the lime in with 28 mudzillas and then with 29.5's, i switched to red and like it alot better


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

i noticed a slight loss in power when i put the terras on my quad. theyre much heavier than stock. so i decided to put the maroon in and it got all of the power back that it lost. i love the maroon. wouldnt change a thing. good luck


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

I am running the Maroon Primary and Almond Secondary with 29.5 Outlaws (Skinnies & Wides) and I love the way mine performs...I still snap the front end up in High and can churn the thick stuff with the best of 'em


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

Do you have the stock weights in it?


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Ok here goes round 2 with the lime green. I installed it today and I'm still topping out at 40 mph, banging rev limiter. It wont pick up the front now since I put the outlaws on and lime green in the secondary. I took some pics of the spring installed and the deflection. Please tell me if any of you see something wrong here that I'm missing.


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

deflection appears to be a little loose, other than that everything looks normal JMO the lime is way to much clutching for anything other than racing


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I think I may have been pushing down harder than the 12 lbs that is specified in the manual. I know it takes about 5 seconds after I come to a stop with it in gear before it starts squealing, its running tighter than it was before. I think the spring coil is binding up on the lip of the larger spring cup, thats just my opinion.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

and yes the stock weights are in HeadC1.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

any grooves or bad glazing on your sheaves?


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

sheaves look great. no glazing and no grooves.


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

If you run your compression tool down farther will the next coil go in the spring cup? For some reason the lime greens are painted very think, you may want to sand them down some.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

it catches on the edge and if I crank down more on the tool then the coils dont compress straight. Hard to explain without a picture.


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

I think its the paint causing the springs not to compress correctly and the clutch cant open all the way. I would sand the outer edge of the coils. It probably doesn't need it all the way to the metal. I think we sanded a little on mine so it would fit better and had no problems.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I just got my almond spring in today. Fixing to install it and see how it works out. I'm thinking the same thing on the paint with the lime green.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

i think you have other problems than clutches


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Then what would you suggest phisy? With my stock secondary and maroon primary I can run 68 mph on 28" tires. I only have the speed problems with the lime green spring. Here is what I have so far, pic-wise. Almond spring fits soooo much better in the cups. I have some pics of how the cups were cutting into the coil of the lime green. I also got a pic of the sheaves after I lightly scuffed them with some 400 grit. I tried to get a good pic of the belt riding in the secondary but I cant figure out how to use the macro on this digi cam.


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

and the rest


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## wood butcher (May 11, 2009)

yuor belt looks pretty go u should be gittin a small squeal in gearlike that . ur not gonna get any real speed with the lime and it is a bit larger in dia. than other


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

I knew going with the outlaws that I wouldnt be doing any top speed runs, just thought it would do more than 40mph with the 28" mudlites on there


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

anything over 40mph with laws is attempted suicide :haha:


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## oilfield_trash21 (Aug 27, 2009)

Finally got a chance to ride the brute with the almond installed between rains storms today. I gotta say, I like this one much better. Rpm's stay lower while cruising and it will still snap the front up at 15 mph while in high. I got a barely used lime green spring if anybody wants it, pm me.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

dam, odd. glad you got it how you want it though. did this fix your top speed problem too?


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

wood butcher said:


> ur not gonna get any real speed with the lime


Just so you know for future reference. When I was running lime green and maroon in my green 07 Brute, I was hitting 56 while tuning it going across a pretty short pasture and it was still pulling strong, just ran out of room. With 30" backs my speedometer was off 20% so that meant I was actually going about 67.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

28 inch tires + lime green secondary + stock primary + 1 mile test = 51mph


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Mines a P650 ,pink primary , stock brute secondary,w/26''589's It will do 64 mph


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm a little suprised by that because of the weight of tire but I'm sure it has something to do with mine having dual airbox snorks, uni air filter, dynatek cdi, hmf, and jet kit tuned with a lm2. I'm not real good with distances but I'd say that was in 500 feet and it had some left (maybe not much LOL).


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## HeadC1 (Feb 11, 2009)

I was talking about the wieght of the 28" tire, though I'm not sure what tire Phishy is talking about. I just know my backs are heavy.


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