# Primary wont reinstall!!!



## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

Took the brute apart to tighten then belt. Got everything apart no prob. Pulled the secondary apart and removed a shim (thanks for the videos!) But went to put everything back on and the primary bolt now act like its a few threads shy. Didt act like I messed anything up and it threads in just fine without the primary in place. The bolt either shrunk or the primary got fatter. I didnt take the primary apart at al, didnt get it wet or feed it after midnight either. Any ideas? Im spose to go ridin this weekend. Can I remove one of the two washers to get it started. But even at that it sure wouldnt be held by much thread. Whatcha yall think? Thanks fellas


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

It's gotta be torqed back on. Make sure the shaft is clean of debri and dry. As well as the inside of the clutch. It must not be all the way up on the shaft.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

What did you use to get the primary off?


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

used the epi puller. Like I said everything came off just fine no signs of stripped threads or anything. I cant even get the bolt to start it I will torq it to 69lbs if I can get it to bite. The bolt looks fine not bad threads. Watching prepsb video it just slapped right on and had no problem getting the bolt to start???


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

numbutt1 said:


> used the epi puller. Like I said everything came off just fine no signs of stripped threads or anything. I cant even get the bolt to start it I will torq it to 69lbs if I can get it to bite. The bolt looks fine not bad threads. Watching prepsb video it just slapped right on and had no problem getting the bolt to start???


Might pull the clutch, get a light and take a look inside the crank at the threads. See if the first part is stripped or anything. Try the bolt without the clutch

In any case, you will need at least 3/4 of the bolt threads to hold the 69ftlbs touque..


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Check the crank shaft and the primary clutch real good , something is holding the primary and not letting it bottom out


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

The threads look fine. It goes in nice and smooth without the clutch. I can get it to bite without any of the washers but its not by much and Im not confident I want to try and torq it on without at least one of the washers in place. I shot this pic you can see the threads are good but was curious if the backspace from clutch to the crank is adiquate. It only measeures 9/16in. Should this be inset deeper? Does it even move? I never touched the primary to take it apart or anything so dont know why it would have moved (if it even does)


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## wood butcher (May 11, 2009)

are u sure ur not trying to put it on backwards?


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## swampthing (May 2, 2010)

^^ yep that's what it looks like to me....turn the primary around and give er' a try.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

I can't tell on the bolt threads..too close & blury and sure can't see the crank threads


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## wood butcher (May 11, 2009)

i thought my eyes were playin tricks on me


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

Its on right. Just trying to show where it stops against crank shaft. If the inset can change. Mute point anyways I dont think it does. Thats the only thing that I can think of is it wont quite let the clutch body go on far enough to grab more thread. Threads are good on the bolt and in the crank shaft. Manually compressing the springs doesnt change the collar shaft in the middle so the amount of thread showing out the back is the same. Maybe Ill just hold my breath and try to drive it on without a washer. Can go back with washers once its pressed onto the shaft I guess


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## wood butcher (May 11, 2009)

can u post a pic from the front side


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

I guess the puller could have mushroomed the end of the crank, but dang if the cranks that soft that can't be good.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

wood butcher said:


> can u post a pic from the front side


Yeah, lets see inside the crank end, the back side of the clutch so we can see the hub and a better shot of the bolt threads. No, nothing can move or adjust on mounting. The threads should make contact and start more then 1/2" away from the clutch. Either the clutch isn't seating all the way or there are some lost threads somewhere.


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## filthyredneck (Feb 10, 2010)

nmkawierider said:


> Yeah, lets see inside the crank end, the back side of the clutch so we can see the hub and a better shot of the bolt threads. No, nothing can move or adjust on mounting. The threads should make contact and start more then 1/2" away from the clutch. Either the clutch isn't seating all the way or there are some lost threads somewhere.


Agreed, you should be able to slide that primary up on the shaft and start the bolt in a good ways just by hand. ....this is a dumb question but gotta ask anyways just to eliminate the possibility....are you turning the bolt the right way? Remember it is left hand threaded. (backwards)


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

Heres pics of the primary face and the crank stem it bolts into. And yes I am aware its reverse threads. Id just use a little longer bolt to get it pushed on if it were regular threads. But that would be too easy


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

After making some more measurements was wondering if the crankshaft is supposed to have threads all the way out to the end or if the threads start approx 1/2 in back from the end. Thats about what is missing to make this work. It looks smooth and machined there is no signs of it ever being threaded. Just wanted to check what others have??


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## filthyredneck (Feb 10, 2010)

Everything looks right brother.... Maybe try some emery cloth or light grit sand paper on the crankshaft and backside of the clutch hub just to make sure everything is clean and its not just grit thats keeping it from sliding on :thinking:. I don't really know what else to say to try, wish I lived near you I'd glady come by and take a look and see if I could help in any way. Are you sure that all the little washers are where they are suppost to be in the front side of the primary? I know theres a couple big washers and then I believe theres a little thicker piece in there that goes all the way to the inside of the hole and washers go on top of it..... Otherwise it should just slip right up there.


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## Stogi (Feb 24, 2010)

Is it just me or does this area not look deep enough? Like a washer has gotten jammed in there. Mine is a lot deeper than that.


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## rmax (Nov 21, 2009)

Stogi said:


> Is it just me or does this area not look deep enough? Like a washer has gotten jammed in there. Mine is a lot deeper than that.


good catch, no that does not look right, i will look at my old clutch today, but wondering how something got in there ,just looked mine is 68.91 mm 2 3/4in deep to the end of taper


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

rmax said:


> good catch, no that does not look right, i will look at my old clutch today, but wondering how something got in there ,just looked mine is 68.91 mm 2 3/4in deep to the end of taper


 Yeah if I remember right I measered that the other day at 9/16in or so of a setback. That would kinda make sense if yall are saying there are more then 2 washers. (allthough thats all the parts daigram shows) I have 2 washers of the same size on mine but Ill have to look into the front of that thing and see if there is something else on there that shouldnt be. Who knows what they did before I owned it


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

rmax said:


> good catch, no that does not look right, i will look at my old clutch today, but wondering how something got in there ,just looked mine is 68.91 mm 2 3/4in deep to the end of taper


By 2 3/4in Im guessing your talking about the crank shaft (female shaft bolt goes into) itself correct?


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Seems like, if I remember correctly, one of those washers is not a flat washer? It is thick & had a lip on it??? Though, I could be thinking about the clutch that was on the PoPo.


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## filthyredneck (Feb 10, 2010)

Yeah Jon thats the "thicker" piece I was referring too...but I had just come inside from rebuilding my steering and just couldn't think of the correct terminology lol.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Polaris425 said:


> Seems like, if I remember correctly, one of those washers is not a flat washer? It is thick & had a lip on it??? Though, I could be thinking about the clutch that was on the PoPo.


No, your thinking right, the first one in has a centering lip, there there are two other just flat washers.

I'm seeing some junk on the shaft and some cuttings on the clutch. Lets get it completely blown-out & cleaned-up with acetone and see how it slips on. It has to be completely free of everything...pure clean metal to metal contact. And can we see a few better pics if the threads on the bolt? Thanks. An end shot too would be nice.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

^ That's the 2 things that are going on in my mind. Either the shaft has something on it & it's not letting the primary go all the way on, OR the lip on that washer is not lining up correctly, and is keeping the bolt from being able to grab the threads.


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## Madbrute (Dec 19, 2010)

Like stgi and rmax said there is a washier of some sort stuck in the rear of the clutch.


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## Stogi (Feb 24, 2010)

numbutt1 said:


> By 2 3/4in Im guessing your talking about the crank shaft (female shaft bolt goes into) itself correct?



No he is talking about the depth where that shaft goes. Take a good look at you clutch where that shaft goes. I think you will find a little surprise.:34:


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## rmax (Nov 21, 2009)

Stogi said:


> No he is talking about the depth where that shaft goes. Take a good look at you clutch where this shaft goes. I think you will find a little surprise.:34:


yes the arrow is pointing at it , where did that washer come from, the arrow should be 2+inches long before it comes to any kind of lip


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

Ok Ill giver her a look tonight. That might explain where the third washer went too. Right now there is only two flat washers of even thickness with no flange or anything. Its wedged in there so tight it just looks factory and i hadnt even noticed it may be out of place. Ill have a look and probably have to tear the primary all apart to get it out. Just wish I had the replacement springs to throw in since ive gone through all this trouble. On the deflection though I removed a shim (had a fat and skinny) left the skinny now wondering if that was too much. Can a person get an indication of the diflection just by setting the belt on the secondary to see how high it rides? If so I think Ill do the switcheroo before I bother putting it all back. Ill let yall know what I find tonight.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

I'm having a hard time understanding how you got an EPI primary puller through that washer's hole...if its realy still in there..


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

numbutt1 said:


> Ok Ill giver her a look tonight. That might explain where the third washer went too. Right now there is only two flat washers of even thickness with no flange or anything. Its wedged in there so tight it just looks factory and i hadnt even noticed it may be out of place. Ill have a look and probably have to tear the primary all apart to get it out.


 Shouldnt have to take the clutch apart just drive it out from the front ...On the EPI spring thru the hole...:bigeyes:


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## Stogi (Feb 24, 2010)

nmkawierider said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding how you got an EPI primary puller through that washer's hole...if its realy still in there..


I really don't think it will go back on far enough to need the puller.


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## Stogi (Feb 24, 2010)

numbutt1 said:


> Ok Ill giver her a look tonight. That might explain where the third washer went too.


:34: LOL!!

I might just have to add that quote to my sig.hahaha


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

OK gave it a good look over there is nothing jamed in there. No washer or anything else whats there is much thicker and is a factory part. Call it a collar or whatever its part of the sheave SHEAVE-COMP 59302-0003 or posibly
92028A BUSHING 92028-1975
So I have ruled out something foreign in the way. Just by looking at it I cant see how it would function without sliding farther onto the crank shaft. So I suspect somehow in pulling it off the crank shaft sleave I pulled it farther out then it should be. The gap I have is approx 9/16 inches. Does anyone have one off or have a spare and can measure thiers for comparison? I can't mess with it for a few days but will tear it all down and it would be nice to know how far (if I can) to drive that collar back into the sheave/clutch houseing. This pic and arrow is the distance Im trying to measure thanks


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

I still want to see a better photo of the threaded end of the bolt.


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

I can pull my Primary and measure it for you. I am about to be working on my fuel pump again anyway. I will have your measurements in the morning.


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## rmax (Nov 21, 2009)

rmax said:


> good catch, no that does not look right, i will look at my old clutch today, but wondering how something got in there ,just looked mine is 68.91 mm 2 3/4in deep to the end of taper


man where do you think i got these numbers from , i mesured 2 diffrent clutches both the same


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

Ok so I pulled my clutches a little bit ago and got some pics and measurments.

Pic #1 Back of the Primary
Pic #2 Right at 3" deep
Pic #3 Front of the Primary
Pic #4 Right at 1/2" deep
Pic #5 The 3 washers on the Primary bolt. 2 Flat and 1 shaped to fit in the indentions on the front of Primary
Pic #6 Primary slid onto crank with the bolt in just far enough to start first thread
Pic #7 Bolt is inserted right at 1/2" for the first thread to start in crank


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

rmax said:


> man where do you think i got these numbers from , i mesured 2 diffrent clutches both the same


 Sorry I missed it just wanted confirmation I was looking at the same thing


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

Gumbo thanks a ton. After actually seeing the pic I think it is that stupid washer. That thing is so thick looking at it last night it looked like a factory collor. But either way yall have confirmed the depth aint right so Ill dig in in a few days and get it figured out. Thanks yall I'll let you know


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

No problem. Just trying to help any way I can. Don't give up, it'll work for ya. Now I am gonna go put mine back together again


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

now that you're home shouldnt we be seeing some new pics...


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

I have been working on it since about 3 this morning. Stopped long enough to pull my clutches to get some reference pics for Num. I am getting back to work I promise


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

oh I meant of something black & yellow :rockn:


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

Polaris425 said:


> oh I meant of something black & yellow :rockn:


 
Working on that one too. I am going to the local dealer after lunch to do a little talkin'


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Got the primary back on yet?


Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk


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## numbutt1 (Mar 17, 2010)

Well fellers can't thank yall enough. It was just as some of you said I had that third washer jammed in the back of the primary. It was wedged in there so nice and flush that it looked like something factory. (Dont bother asking how. I cant remember what I did yesterday yet alone that darn thing) It wasnt till I actually saw that picture that I realized just how thick that step washer was and that was what I was seeing not some fatory collar. I slapped her all back together and she seems to be running great so far. NO MORE SLIPPING:haha:. One side note I never actually took any wiring loose. Just got everythiong loose and unbolted the sensor deal from the cover then set it aside. I put everything back together and it never threw a light. I Did check the on switch inside the cover and as of now it seems good. So possibly just found an option to avoid the reseting the switch hasle? Thanks again


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

I am glad that the pics helped.


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