# Viper Winch troubles



## rripper21

i am new to forum....have a 2005 brute force 650. i bought a brand new viper max 4000 winch in november, enjoyed mud and water right away in our unusually warm MN november, and shortly thereafter installed a viper plow to be ready for our MN snowfalls. 

aside from some bad install instructions (viper told me to go to warn's website for more info ... bad for viper business if you ask me), and some wrong bolts for the amsteel hause (luckily i am 20 minutes from moto-alliance), the winch worked well in the warm temps. it is slower and makes more noise than my riding friend's warn, but pulled me out just fine from some very stuck situations. 

the trouble came when temps dropped below freezing. my garage is unheated...when i went out to plow first snow of the year, winch would not budge. i could tell it was trying, but wouldnt. I applyed propane bazooka heat, winch worked. hhhmmmm? problem continued....assumed water in the gear box. long story short...after many attempts to dry out in heated garages, etc....moto alliance (always friendly and helpful) sent me a replacement winch. after removing my bum-viper, i pulled the gear box cap off...and literally poured water out of the winch....water from either falling mudding or winter plowing! either way, the viper winch (or just the lemon i got) is NOT waterproof. i'd say it was submerged numerous times mudding before freezing temps were upon us.

so now, i have a brand new viper in my possession....it' a pain to swap out and install....so,

is there any tips any of you have for making sure this winch is more waterproof than the last one?

should i tell moto alliance i do not want the new one and just buy a different brand? warn perhaps?

i will not be able to get the new winch submerged until spring, which means i will not encounter freezing temps after using the winch for mudding until next winter when the year warranty will be used up...so if i'm going to install this winch i want to make sure it does not take in water....ANY TIPS PLZ.

i am afraid that all the good reviews of the viper i read are from folks in warmer temps....does anyone else use the viper winch for plowing in sub-zero temps. i do not want to get stuck on a frozen lake with my plow down and winch NOT working.

thanks again, 

randy


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## phreebsd

im going to get you some help. some very very good help. stay tuned.


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## phreebsd

when i take the winch apart to clean it i always apply grease to any gaskets in between housing segments.


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## rripper21

moto-alliance's tech guy (not located in MN which is strange) said to also add 1oz or so of gear oil or motor oil to help keep gears quiet and gear grease more "fluid". 

i have a brand new one to install and am hesitant to take all the housing segments apart....but if greasing gaskets will help, i should i guess. how many parts are in each segment? are they all on the shaft so are easy to keep organized for reassembly? are there any small parts that just "fall" out while disassembling? i've taken the cap off of the old one but that is as far as i've gone. thanks.


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## phreebsd

its easy to completely disassemble and reassemble the winch. everything can be kept together on that main by laying it oout in front of you in order from looking at the winch from the front. i agree with kent about that gear oil. it keeps the winch a lot more loose than straight grease does for sure.


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## rripper21

are you associated with moto-alliance? is that why you were so quick to answer my thread? you called moto-alliance's tech guy kent...which is true but i did not mention his name...so you have prior experience with kent...please explain. 

the truth of the matter is...i want desperately for this cheaper warn alternative to work. but if i install the new one that was sent to me...and i have the same problems i'm really going to be irritated that i did not switch to a warn today while i have the machine apart and winch removed. there is water, sand, and dirt in the winch i just removed from my machine....I BOUGHT IT IN NOVEMBER AND IT QUIT WORKING AS SOON AS TEMPS WERE BELOW FREEZING. to me, a winch is a necessity...a working one even more so. 

i will try greasing the gaskets, but i am concerned if they are not waterproof the gearbox output shaft seal may also not be waterproof and water may enter the winch regardless....which i am not about to investigate. my winch was new in nov, frozen by december, and i believe i should not have to do anything to a brand new, out of the box unit like grease the gaskets, disassembe, etc. 

thanks again for your advice...let me know what you think. if you live in AL like profile says, i guess you've never dealt with the freezing temps similar to MN say probably havent encountered the "frozen winch" situation. thanks.


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## phreebsd

i have much experience with moto-alliance. my family has purchased 4 to 5 winches from moto-alliance!

this year we got to really cold temps but yes you are right we generally dont have problems here induced from cold temps.

I think the main water entry point is the gaskets behind the spools. that's a moving part area of rubber to metal. dirt gets in there and does a number on it!
heavy grease on that location behind the seal should help water stay out longer.
ive had mine submerged many many times and they run completely fine underwater. I'll even say this. I own an original viper classic 3000 winch that will run totally underwater and it's not sealed very well at all!


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## lilbigtonka

i have had experience with moto alliance and have a 3000max right now on my brute and it is flawless. viper ftw and yes u gotta take care of winches they are a motor too lol. as far as your cold weather cant help you there brother im in florida


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## gpinjason

There is also a possibility that you got a defective winch the first time. Even the most elite brands aren't perfect 100% of the time. Since you got a replacement, I would do what Phreebsd said about the seals and put it on. If it goes out later this year, then go ahead and buy the Warn you want to buy, but I would at least use the one that I had before forking out more money. Everyone deserves at least 1 second chance. I work in a place that I can understand how bolts can get mixed up, or something can get damaged or something during assembly.


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## phreebsd

lilbigtonka said:


> i have had experience with moto alliance and have a 3000max right now on my brute and it is flawless. viper ftw and yes u gotta take care of winches they are a motor too lol. as far as your cold weather cant help you there brother im in florida


we dont experience his problem though cause of the moderate climate here. thought we may have water inside our winches, it doesnt freeze causing the winch to seize until the ice melts.
mine is flawless too except the dirt that gets into the free-spool. 
that's our problem though really. we sink it in milkshake mud and expect none to enter.. if it were always clean pool water, that might be the case but dirt particles in water will always defeat a rubber seal eventually.


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## motoalliance

rripper21 said:


> i am new to forum....have a 2005 brute force 650. i bought a brand new viper max 4000 winch in november, enjoyed mud and water right away in our unusually warm MN november, and shortly thereafter installed a viper plow to be ready for our MN snowfalls.
> 
> aside from some bad install instructions (viper told me to go to warn's website for more info ... bad for viper business if you ask me), and some wrong bolts for the amsteel hause (luckily i am 20 minutes from moto-alliance), the winch worked well in the warm temps. it is slower and makes more noise than my riding friend's warn, but pulled me out just fine from some very stuck situations.
> 
> the trouble came when temps dropped below freezing. my garage is unheated...when i went out to plow first snow of the year, winch would not budge. i could tell it was trying, but wouldnt. I applyed propane bazooka heat, winch worked. hhhmmmm? problem continued....assumed water in the gear box. long story short...after many attempts to dry out in heated garages, etc....moto alliance (always friendly and helpful) sent me a replacement winch. after removing my bum-viper, i pulled the gear box cap off...and literally poured water out of the winch....water from either falling mudding or winter plowing! either way, the viper winch (or just the lemon i got) is NOT waterproof. i'd say it was submerged numerous times mudding before freezing temps were upon us.
> 
> so now, i have a brand new viper in my possession....it' a pain to swap out and install....so,
> 
> is there any tips any of you have for making sure this winch is more waterproof than the last one?
> 
> should i tell moto alliance i do not want the new one and just buy a different brand? warn perhaps?
> 
> i will not be able to get the new winch submerged until spring, which means i will not encounter freezing temps after using the winch for mudding until next winter when the year warranty will be used up...so if i'm going to install this winch i want to make sure it does not take in water....ANY TIPS PLZ.
> 
> i am afraid that all the good reviews of the viper i read are from folks in warmer temps....does anyone else use the viper winch for plowing in sub-zero temps. i do not want to get stuck on a frozen lake with my plow down and winch NOT working.
> 
> thanks again,
> 
> randy


Randy,
Thanks for your honest feedback. Tim here from MotoAlliance. Looking at your file it looks like we have gone the extra mile to try and make this right. Sorry that your experience has been less than great.

These problems are not common for our winches. We sell many winches to cold climates (Alaska, Canada, Northern US, and Russia) and have no problems. Also have many customers submerging their winches in mud and water. Just like any motor, they require maintenance and cleaning. 

Again, your experience is not the norm, and I apologize for that. 

Please call us directly to figure out a solution. If anyone else has challenges or questions about our products, please PM me or call us.
Tim
MotoAlliance
866-527-7637


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## Gunner

I have a Viper max 3000 and have never had any issues with it. I use it to plow all the time. I live in Eastern SD and was out plowing over new years when it was -30 below, with no winch problems. My winch has been submerged several times and I've never done any maintenance to it. Sounds like I probably should thiugh.


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## phreebsd

You should. 
Every winch i have ever worked on had dirt inside.


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