# NEW VDI copperhead, trouble with error codes..



## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

my bike is running funny at mid throttle and throwing a throttle position sensor code.

i was wondering if anyone else has gotten this and how they fixed it?
do i need to adjust my TPS sensor?

and how do you reset the error codes?


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

if your TPS has gone bad already, it wouldnt be the first 2008 brute to happen.
have you put in the stock CDI to make sure the bike runs properly stock?


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

welcome to the world of VDI...Hope its easier to get correct that the KQ's are.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

im going to put the stock back in right now...

stay tuned i guess


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

have you tried this?

Due to variances between factory setups on the Kawasaki engines, the machine may exhibit high idle, stalling when stopping, poor hole shot performance and hard starting. Following this procedure will force the ECU to determine the optimum value for the machine it is installed on. 


*To calibrate and use the optimum value:* 
1) Start with the key off. Put the toggle switch to position #1. Put the transmission in neutral. 
2) Connect the orange tether input to a 12V source. Turn on the key, and once the ECU detects it connected for one second, it will turn on the status light, and start pulsing out a L-L-L-L (L = 1 second flash) error code to indicate it is waiting to/calibrating the step value. You can now disconnect the orange wire. 
3) Start the engine. 
4) The ECU will idle the engine until it reaches operating temperature (still flashing the L-L-L-L code). Once the engine is warmed up, the ECU will idle the engine down, and save the optimum value. The engine will then return to normal idle, and the status light will flash continuously at 1/4 second intervals to indicate it is done. 
5) Next time the key is turned on, it will use this new value instead of the value stored in the "idle step" location of the map. 



*To clear the optimum value, and default back to the map value* (only required should you not find the optimum value good): 
1) Start with the key off. Put the toggle switch to position #1. Put the transmission in neutral. 
2) Connect the orange tether input to a 12V source. Turn on the key, and once the ECU detects it connected for one second, it will turn on the status light, and start pulsing out a L-L-L-L (L = 1 second flash) error code to indicate it is waiting to/calibrating the step value. You can now disconnect the orange wire. 
3) Turn off the key. 
4) Next time the key is turned on; it will use the value from the map.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

yes sir, 
thats what i thought the problem was. i did this first before i even rode it.
then the FI light started flashing the next day but i didnt pay attention to it since i was plowing snow and almost done. today i went to re-calibrate it then the error code started flashing the TPS code. so i tried the calibration again and had them even send another MAP since it seemed to run lean at mid throttle. tried that MAP and nothing. still runs lean at MID throttle. it always did ever since the VDI was installed.
im going out right now to try the stock ECU.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

good deal. i was reading that the copper head vdi needs the tps to be spot on accurate - something like 1% accuracy but the stock one allows 1-3% accuracy error.. something like that anyway. other bikes have procedures to calibrate the tps in specific diag modes on the bike. we dont have that. ours needs a special connector tool.
if it runs good with stock ecu then this might be the case?


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

just come inside from the test.
flooded out with VDI, i had to put in the stock ECU and warm it up. the bike ran great with the stock ECU in it, FI flashing stopped instantly. got it warmed up and switched back to the VDI. then it gave me the "engine will not start due to questionable DATA" error , ran the same (spitting and MID throttle and lean) the the FI started blinking sparatically, quit, then blink funny again.

i found the thread on the TPS sensor...

http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3020

im going to wait until daytime again to see if i get the wierd FI flashing issues, BTW, i assume i can use the FI flashing as the erroe indicator also?


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## DaBrute (Aug 16, 2009)

88rxn/a said:


> just come inside from the test.
> flooded out with VDI, i had to put in the stock ECU and warm it up. the bike ran great with the stock ECU in it, FI flashing stopped instantly. got it warmed up and switched back to the VDI. then it gave me the "engine will not start due to questionable DATA" error , ran the same (spitting and MID throttle and lean) the the FI started blinking sparatically, quit, then blink funny again.
> 
> i found the thread on the TPS sensor...
> ...


If you flooded it with the VDI, then all u need to do is crank it with the throttle wide open,this shuts off the fuel and feeds air through the cylinders. This will happen if you turn the key on and off while trying to start it,as each time the key is turned on a new prime pulse is injected.
*Once the VDI is installed you need to go by any codes on the VDI NOT the FI light. Couple Q's for ya.... 
-Where are u getting the TPS code from? the VDI light or the FI light on the cluster?
- When at idle does the FI light flash erratically?
- Also does it go away when you bring the rpm's up? or when riding?

The VDI doesn't use the TPS sensor and if you look at your map you will see that there will be a number like 25-26 in the TPS column, the VDI uses this column for your tire size instead.


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## sjf323 (Mar 11, 2009)

So is this a common theme with the VDIs and the Kawis? Are most other people having issues? I'm itching to buy one with the full muzzy, just wondering what I would be getting into.


You dont mind me asking how much you pay?


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

i tried to un-flood it by pressing the throttle all the way in. just wouldnt do it. i bet it got worse because i did turn the key off and on a few times trying to start it.
first i was going by the VDI status light. but it didnt throw the code until i tried to RE-calibrate the VDI, first it did the L-L-L-L AFTER i started it, then it gave me the TPS error code...i went inside to grab the manual to see what code it was and when i came out it was flashing the 1/4 showing it was calibrated. ever since i installed it ive had the MID throttle issues, even when he sent a new MAP with the mid range rinchened up.

the FI light was flashing eratically when idling and i think slow acceleratino but when i got on it it went away and when i was slowing down.



> So is this a common theme with the VDIs and the Kawis? Are most other people having issues? I'm itching to buy one with the full muzzy, just wondering what I would be getting into.
> 
> 
> You dont mind me asking how much you pay?


the power increase is VERY impressive, i think once i get these little bugs worked out its gonna be a ripper!

here is the site:
http://www.beanstreamcarts.com/stor...DTc-eVwUpH1ZbvXKXklzdNNZVFyofas2c7Z4epeTm5PgA


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## sjf323 (Mar 11, 2009)

You know what is funny that I was about to PM you about getting the VDI. (In reference to this thread http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1537&page=4 about being able to get the VDI cheaper) Then I realized that this was ur thread...I hope you get it all worked out. Keep us informed, would like to know the outcome of this.

Later 
Scott


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## DaBrute (Aug 16, 2009)

88rxn/a said:


> i tried to un-flood it by pressing the throttle all the way in. just wouldnt do it. i bet it got worse because i did turn the key off and on a few times trying to start it.
> first i was going by the VDI status light. but it didnt throw the code until i tried to RE-calibrate the VDI, first it did the L-L-L-L AFTER i started it, then it gave me the TPS error code...i went inside to grab the manual to see what code it was and when i came out it was flashing the 1/4 showing it was calibrated. ever since i installed it ive had the MID throttle issues, even when he sent a new MAP with the mid range rinchened up.
> 
> the FI light was flashing eratically when idling and i think slow acceleratino but when i got on it it went away and when i was slowing down.


When you say that you tried to (Re-calibrate) the ISC did you un-install the calibration first? If not, you MUST put it back to the map setting first as explained in the calibration addendum in Steve's post above.Then calibrate it again.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

thats whats strange about it. it wont start flashing the L until i START the bike?
the status light just stays solid/lit, no blinking or anything.

and how do i clear the error codes on the VDI?


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

here is a video, not the greatest but listen while im at mid throttle (not getting on it).
that and hard starts is pretty much the only issues i have right now. im not sure if its calibrated or not??


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

you can definitely see what you describe in the video.
i have to believe there's calibration issue or something stemming from the Throttle sensor. in the manual it says to not adjust it. you can only check input and output voltage, and if found out of spec, replace the unit.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

i hope the TPS dont need replaced.
listen @ 1:23!!!
pretty good backfire!
but i wonder if it needs more fuel.
does it sound lean or rich? im guessing lean.
with the stock ECU it runs normal.

this is what lyle @ VDI instructed me to do so my next day off im gonna try it.

Hi Tom,

According to the service manual, you shouldn’t need to adjust the TPS sensor.

I’d load in the last map I sent you, and click on the “lean table” tab at the bottom (#1 is for map #1 and #2 is for map #2). We use that to pull out extra fuel under light throttle. For the row TPS=0, try setting 2500=0, 3000=5, 4000=10. That will richen up the light throttle by 10%. If it’s too rich at light throttle, then it tends to want to flood.

Lyle

i just wonder if thats gonna mess with my free rev? because its rich there.
i think it needs tuned but id like to get it close before i take it anywhere.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

good luck man i hope you get this worked out.


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## DaBrute (Aug 16, 2009)

88rxn/a said:


> i hope the TPS dont need replaced.
> listen @ 1:23!!!
> pretty good backfire!
> but i wonder if it needs more fuel.
> ...


 I would think that it is running a little lean,prob because of the muzzy.I would richen it up as Lyle instructed,should fix that. It won't mess with your free rev as the fuel will be added by demand at a certain rpm.
I think you might have interpreted the flashing on the VDI as a code when in fact it was still doing it's calibration.I really don't think you have a TPS problem.
As for the hard start....did you try unplugging the rectifier and then seeing how quick it starts? I know the rectifiers on some were creating too much white noise and this should have been addressed in the latest firmware update.If that doesn't make a difference try adding 1.5ms to your prime pulse (but be carefull about turning the key on and off )as it will add that pulse each time the key turns.


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

That sounds lean...


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## bruteman (Dec 29, 2008)

any updates I am waiting on buying on till I hear how you come out on this


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

haven't had a chance to mess with it. have the next 3 days to play though. i may buy a cheap tach to hook up to the ECU to help me pin point where its lean.

i must say though, lyle at VDI has been emailing back every single Q i throw at him and helping me. real stand up guy and service!


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## yiluss (Apr 11, 2009)

Lyle has just released updated version firmware

Date: January 14, 2010
Revision: 1.4h
Changes: Fixed bug that could cause flicking FI light / limp mode due to noisy battery conditions.
Fixed bug that prevented the L-L-L-L calibration code from being displayed on the status LED before the engine started.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

dang that sounds just like what 88rxn/a needs!


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

no kidding!
im going to have to thank him!
like stated, he really is a stand up guy!!!
maybe now i can get this bad boy running strong!
yiluss, was yours doing the same thing?
how about you Dabrute?


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

ok, updated to 1.4H and uploaded 1.4G hoping it would rid of the FI light flashing...NOPE. but it did fix the calibration L-L-L-L before starting.

i been dumping fuel into the MAP with no avail. im going to get a tach today so i hope then i can narrow down the problem/lean spots.

i set the lean tables to 0 (you need to SUBTRACT lean tables to ADD fuel) and started adding in the VE MAP chart.

it HAS to be the VDI because (needs fuel) the stock ECU works great!


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

aw crud. i was hoping that was going to fix the issue.
you'll get it soon.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

thanks my friend. i to was hoping that once i could cancel the calibration and re-calibrate it i would be OK. just gotta dump some fuel into her is all (i hope).


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## DaBrute (Aug 16, 2009)

well 1.4h didn't help my FI light either,but it's not hurting anything and i'm sure Lyle will eventually get it worked out.Glad you got your ISC cal. working correctly  as for the lean cond.....keep at it, you'll find the spot to add that fuel ! 
Q: why did you upload 1.4g instead of 1.4h or was this a typo? or were you refering to the 1.4 87/91 map?


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

typo, i wasnt sure if 1.4G had a update that 1.4H didnt so first i did the G then H update.
i bought a 30$ tach from autozone today so im back at it tomorrow!


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## DaBrute (Aug 16, 2009)

DaBrute said:


> well 1.4h didn't help my FI light either,but it's not hurting anything and i'm sure Lyle will eventually get it worked out.Glad you got your ISC cal. working correctly  as for the lean cond.....keep at it, you'll find the spot to add that fuel !
> Q: why did you upload 1.4g instead of 1.4h or was this a typo? or were you refering to the 1.4 87/91 map?


 
So i went and re-uploaded 1.4h again and the FI flasing went away, YAY
I turned the key off and restarted it a few times and it never stayed on so i went for a 5km boot and it still never came on .Yay again  all working good now :rockn:

Try that dude.
I first loaded my map into the pod then attached to the VDI , let it do it's firmware update then it installed the new map.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

ill have to try it. i didnt upload the new MAP. just the firmware.


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## john13 (Jan 9, 2009)

88rxn/a,
Every time you do the firmware, as I understand it, you need to have a map on your pod, which could be screwing you up. I uploaded h last night & it solved my issues as far as I can see.
From what I can see on your posts, your at the point now to just get her on a dyno calibrate it. Bring her down to John, get the stage 3, and hold on tight!


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

^^
true, but for what you pay is should run alot better than this (IMO)!
ive hooked the tach up and its right at 2,000RPM's. its like its a transition from the lean table to the VE table or something? the motor gets quiet and has a muffled sound then if i goose it it takes right off? but it dogs and muffles right at 2K and i cant get rid of it!!
is a muffled noise (from motor and exhaust) a rich condition? lean is popping and hesitation right? rich is muffled and bogging?


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

probably man. i'd be going all directions plus and minus to see what i need to be doing.
have you ran it with the airbox lid off and see if the 2K bogging goes away.
that will mean you are rich there


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

thanks phree, i tired with no avail... i did find some info and thought i would share it with everyone (future reference)


cold start problem - Reduce prime pulse value unless you get kickback. 

Hot start problem - Adjust cranking pulse at 80C. 

Miss at idle - Unknown by Dr Z. 

Hesitation when pinning throttle from idle - Adjust acceleration enrichment at 1500. 

Starter kickback cold - Adjust cranking pulse up or down at -40C. 

Starter Kickback hot - Adjust cranking pulse up or down at 80C. 
You can also increase the prime pulse in 0.2 increments to fix kickback. 

Flat lined at 5500 RPM at sea level - The injector is maxed out. M109R or GSXR injector with the new injector map solves the problem. See tech tips for the new injector. 

Backfire in exhaust coming off hard throttle - Decrease deceleration fuel cut % number. 

Launch then bog then takes off again - Decrease acceleration enrichment cycles. 

Bog then takes off - Decrease acceleration enrichment percent. 

Idle too high hot - Adjust warm-up RPM @ 70C or idle position (steps). Check throttle free play. 

Larger tires or heavier machine - Decrease acceleration enrichment. 

Lighter clutching or freer flowing exhaust - Increase acceleration enrichment. 

Lean or rich stall while engine warms up - Adjust warm-up enrichment at the temp it stalls. 

Stalls right after starting - Needs more or longer after start enrichment. 

Labors for a few seconds after starting then smooths out - Needs less or shorter after start enrichment. 

Larger tires - Change the TPS calibration number to your tire size in inches. Stock is 25. Lyle changed this box to a tire size value instead of a TPS setting.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

finally making progress. its really rich turns out. the lean table needs WAY more fuel taken away.
but now i gave myself a stalling issue. at least im making progress.


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## yiluss (Apr 11, 2009)

the problem I have is that the orange cable does not recognize the 12volt source, so it does not kill the engine when connected to 12volts, therefore I can´t get the L-L-L-L code to set the optimum idle step value

I emailed Lyle but he hasnt answered, is today a holiday in USA? Marthin L King day?


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

yep its a holiday here but he's in canada.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

i talked to him today, he was there.


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## yiluss (Apr 11, 2009)

thanks man, forgot he is in canada, but he did answer me this morning and offered a solution, will test it out and hope it solves the issue


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

fill us in on the details please?


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## yiluss (Apr 11, 2009)

sorry about that, it is a firmware version that uses the override button instead of the non working orange cable, havent tried it yet


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## deuce07 (Aug 27, 2009)

man im glad i dont have any problems with mine hope you git it figured out i must of just got lucky


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

it kind of stinks....i dont know if its bike or unit specific...just my luck though!
500 ******* and i got a bike i can hardly ride!!


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## DaBrute (Aug 16, 2009)

88...still not workin right yet? I got your pm's and have tried to catch ya in the mudhole, bad timing i guess.Have you talked to Lyle again since Monday?


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

yeah, im off and on randomly sorry man.....
i got an email back from him about a MAP i sent him i been working on. apparently im going about it the wrong way. this is what he wrote:



> Hi Tom,
> 
> The snorkels will be fine.
> 
> ...


i guess all i can do is buy a wideband and tune it the best i can. im wondering if i should be pulling fuel out of the MAP or TPS in the VE tables...
a little better instructions would be nice on how to tune with this unit....


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## DaBrute (Aug 16, 2009)

I'll send ya some tuning info.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

more info from lyle,



> The way the ECU will run is it starts at the top of the table using the MAP sensor. That gives better driveability and smoother idle. As you apply more throttle, it will reach a point where it switches from the MAP to the TPS (higher the throttle, the further down the table it goes). Typically (unless you are hard on/off the throttle), you’ll start at top left of the VE table, and do a diagonal to bottom right of the VE table. More aggressive the throttle, the steeper that line is.
> 
> If you are having light throttle issues, you’ll want to change the MAP rows. In neutral, and slowly reving it up, it will be between the 20 and 30 MAP rows. Driving at say 10-20 MPH you’ll be around MAP=40, at 30MPH at MAP=60 (that is driving on a level surface, cruising).
> 
> I would just avoid putting anything in the lean tables for rpm < 2000 rpm, as it will give inconsistencies to the fueling, giving it stalling, rough idle. If you feel the idle is too rich/lean, then use the VE tables (typically all of your tuning should be done on the VE tables).



i am only posting this for the newer users that dont have quick/easy access to a dyno.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

i would like to see a layout of how the tables work and correlate to one another. 
I gather by your description they are side by side with the the line representing throttle position at a given RPM crosses all 3 tables.

correct?

i also gather that close to 0 TP or idle revs the method to compute what is given is via the map but once you go up to a certain limit it swaps to values computed from TPS postion.

correct?


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## deuce07 (Aug 27, 2009)

i would start all from the beginning and start with a fresh map he has on the website, mine has the muzzy and snorkles but the more fuel you give mine doesnt seem to run any better im on the 0% and 5% fuel with mine. Ive went up to 20% and doesnt run any better just burns more fuel and run a tick cooler.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

phreebsd said:


> i would like to see a layout of how the tables work and correlate to one another.
> I gather by your description they are side by side with the the line representing throttle position at a given RPM crosses all 3 tables.
> 
> correct?
> ...



yes and yes

i think i been working on the tables at the wrong spots. i was changing the 20 and 30 MAP in the VE tables for cruising. lyle insisted on changing the 30 and 40 MAP...
when it decides to stop freezing rain im going out to try it.


*deuce07:

if you dont mind me asking, which map are you running. he advised me to run the 10% pipe MAP.
*


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## john13 (Jan 9, 2009)

88-I'm running the plus 10 also, only issue I have now is the cold start (I mean no start), which I hope to fix tonight. I'm probally getting a bit more air in with the EHS lid than you are with the snork's though. I tried the 5, 15 & 20 and the 10 seems to be the best.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

10 seems to be the best for me also at WOT, not so much for light throttle...
ive tried the stock 10% MAP without the lid and it just acts up the same if not a little worse.

did you have to adjust any for mid to light throttle john13?
if so where at exactly in the MAP and what did do? add or take away fuel?


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## john13 (Jan 9, 2009)

88,
I've been OK, could use a bit of adjustment in the low-midrange, but not enough to make it a pressing issue. Right now I'm just trying to get it to start.


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## deuce07 (Aug 27, 2009)

just wont everyone know there is a new update 1.4i


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

^^^
thanks!
but i think i have problems with the VDI itself?
i tried removing the rectifier plug for the cold starts, it helped.
then i changed the plugs and found the rear cylinder plug was CAKED badly. it helped but the miss was still there? since we have had alot of snow i couldnt really get it wide open until tonight. i really think my rear cylinder is missing badly, as in sparking...not sparking?
i took it down the road tonight and cut it loose and could only reach 55 and it still hesitated at that speed. with my mods i think i should AT LEAST get another 10MPH over that before it starts topping out!?
with the stock ECU it has no hesitation? im not going to run it this hard with the stock ECU becuase i dont want it to lean out.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

talked to lyle @ velocity devices.
im sending it back to him and hes gonna test and/or give me another unit.


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

well, i got the unit back today. it started out good with a LITTLE miss like before and just progressed and got worse until it went right back to the way the other ECU was?

im going to pull the plugs sat. morning to see whats going on...
he gave me a complete replacement ECU and wiring harness. i hope i get this figured out because i dont want to keep paying $25 to send it back!
a
im using the 10% full muzzy MAP. i even ran it without the lid with no change. if i would have time i would have change MAPs and tried a leaner one.

any suggestions?


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## sjf323 (Mar 11, 2009)

Lyle sent me a map for a couple of my issues I was having and it seems to work good for me, although I still have a high idle and get a flickering FI light every so often. But it was built off of the 0% enrichment and I have the reg full muzzy. Probly won't help ya but I can email it to ya if ya like.

Scott


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

^^
i actually dont have the FI light flashing anymore, but i have the high idle and the other problem mentioned.
ill give it a shot if ya dont mind?
[email protected]
thanks!


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

well, im going to try the "test" version (rev.1.5B) of the new firmware and try all the maps. first im pulling the plug to see what it looks like..
wish me luck!


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## Gallop (Feb 26, 2010)

Did you ever switch over to MSD?


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## brute for mud (Jul 15, 2010)

I did hear about issues with the vdi when I was looking for a ecu that's why I went with msd


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