# VForceJohn Question?



## xtreme02gt (Dec 14, 2010)

I am looking at getting a vforcejohn stage 3 clutch ( recomended by john ), but I first wanted to here from you guys on this.

I have a 2008 Brute 750 with 29.5x12 all the way around, muzzy exhaust, and a PC III. I ready dont use it much, I do some trail ridding and some mud ridding, but mainly trail ridding, so should I get the stage 3 primary clutch? Also dose anyone here run vforcejohn clutches? Are they good? anyone have any problems with um?


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

I have heard very good things about his clutch work.. I thought about it a few times myself but since I mainly mud ride, I decided not to.. The stage three is really for drag racing but alot of guys run it in there trail bikes and they love it.. It will give you no advantage in the mud though, mainly just top end.. So I would say go for it since you trail ride alot.. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.:bigok: If you are still running stock springs, you could just put some in it and it will pull alot harder, maroon/almond is a good trail setup..$40..


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## ThaMule (Jan 26, 2010)

I have a VFJ clutch....You can't go wrong with it man. it is a huge difference in how your bike performs


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## xtreme02gt (Dec 14, 2010)

J2! said:


> I have heard very good things about his clutch work.. I thought about it a few times myself but since I mainly mud ride, I decided not to.. The stage three is really for drag racing but alot of guys run it in there trail bikes and they love it.. It will give you no advantage in the mud though, mainly just top end.. So I would say go for it since you trail ride alot.. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.:bigok: If you are still running stock springs, you could just put some in it and it will pull alot harder, maroon/almond is a good trail setup..$40..


Well it has a clutch kit ( springs ) in it, but I couldn't tell you what color they are. I bought the bike used and it had the springs changed in it already. 

On vforcejohn website it says the stage 4 was for drag racing. I told him how I ride and what the bike was used for, and he told me stage 3 is what i needed


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## nolli69 (Jan 29, 2010)

i have a vfj stage 3 w/ spider mod, and a #3 vfj spring, and i have no problems with belt grip. john told me the stage 3 was exactly what i needed to spin 30's, and with the fst cams he reccomended the #3 primary with an epi red secondary springs. the clutch work makes it more efficient. the stage 3 on my kfx 700 still has the stock belt on it. you dont NEED it, but you wont regret it.


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## 03maxpower (Jun 6, 2010)

yeah what he said^^^^ and it is for more than top speed


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

03maxpower said:


> yeah what he said^^^^ and it is for more than top speed


X2. Just do it...no matter what you do.


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

I got one comming, stg 3 with spider mod......should be here early next week. I believe it helps with low end(cut for underdrive) and also top end with better fuel economy. I will let you know when I fit it and try it out if you dont already have one by then.


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## ThaMule (Jan 26, 2010)

What Nolli said. Nolli also needs to post a pic of his lime green beast!


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## J2! (May 8, 2010)

xtreme02gt said:


> Well it has a clutch kit ( springs ) in it, but I couldn't tell you what color they are. I bought the bike used and it had the springs changed in it already.
> 
> On vforcejohn website it says the stage 4 was for drag racing. I told him how I ride and what the bike was used for, and he told me stage 3 is what i needed


Yep that's right stage 4 is drag race ONLY. What I was getting at is that alot of guys run the stage 3 for dirt and sand drags with very good results.. Sounds like EVERYONE has had good results with the stage 3.. Go for it and post back up and give your opinon, it might make me send mine to him.. LOL :bigok:


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## xtreme02gt (Dec 14, 2010)

nolli69 said:


> i have a vfj stage 3 w/ spider mod, and a #3 vfj spring, and i have no problems with belt grip. john told me the stage 3 was exactly what i needed to spin 30's, and with the fst cams he reccomended the #3 primary with an epi red secondary springs. the clutch work makes it more efficient. the stage 3 on my kfx 700 still has the stock belt on it. you dont NEED it, but you wont regret it.





kawboy1 said:


> I got one comming, stg 3 with spider mod......should be here early next week. I believe it helps with low end(cut for underdrive) and also top end with better fuel economy. I will let you know when I fit it and try it out if you dont already have one by then.


 
So dose the stage 3 come with spider mod? or is that a extra cost?


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## ThaMule (Jan 26, 2010)

It does not come with it. You will need to ask for it.


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## xtreme02gt (Dec 14, 2010)

What dose the spider mod do? or help with?

Is it something i need?


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Spidermod Clutches are Identified By the recessed Faceplate and the Exposed Fixed Sheave thru the front cover. They are available for Both Stage 2 sheaves and Stage 3 Sheaves.



What is a Spidermod?? What does it do?? What the Spidermod Does is Give the Clutch the ability to run Lighter weights and have them function as heavier weights. The Spidermod changes the Fulcrum point as to where the weight contacts the roller VS Sheave position. Meaning, the Sheave moves Less, moves faster, and gives more belt travel. Spidermod also DECREACES belt-sheave gap to Less than stock Specs.



This gives the Atv more Lowend and is a Dragrace Oriented, Sled Pulling, and Stock Class Gncc Modification. this Clutch is smoother and lighter than the normal Stock Spider clutch machining.



Fuel economy is Increaced by 15-20%


From vforcejohn.


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

I think the stg 3 with spider mod is $295


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## bruterider27 (Apr 29, 2010)

Does he make a set ups for 31s or over sized tires in manly mud?


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Yes I believe he does.


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## bruterider27 (Apr 29, 2010)

How do you get a hold of him?


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## 03maxpower (Jun 6, 2010)

vforcejohn.com he will be more than happy to help you with all your questions call or email him


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Ok I've had the stg 3 with spider mod clutch in for a few weeks now so I thought I would let you all know my thoughts on it.

First of all the best setup I found for the riding I do(fast trail with some mud, sand & hills)with the stock clutch was maroon primary, almond secondary, 2 stk weights & 2 epi 58 gr weights.

That setup gave me good accel and a top speed of 104 km/h on packed sand (beach) with the heavy but stk size Artrax tires I run with ITP SS 108's. I could never get back that same accel feeling that I had with stk tires and rims but it was close.

So with the stage 3 spider I left the springs the same but swapped out the 2 epi weights for 2 stk vforce weights (54 gr I think) because the spider mod makes the Kawie weights act about 3 gr heavier and the epi weights about 4 gr heavier.

This setup was ok and top speed increased to 108 km/h from 104 but I could tell that it just wasn't right and not working the way I thought it should so I swapped out the 2 v weights for 2 360 weights and it was alot better.......instant hit and pick up but had a funny rev to it but I didn't have a chance to test top speed......I think top speed would be down with the almond sec and the 2 light 360 weights.

After speaking with vfj and telling him that I wanted hard accel + good top end he confirmed I was on the right track and all I needed to do was get rid of the almond sec and replace it with the stk sec......he said the maroon pri was a good choice but his #2 spring would be just the ticket for my setup (maroon 170, vfj #2 220).

So I got rid of the almond and replaced with the stk, kept the maroon and added another 2 shims under the spring for a total of 3 shims and BAM.....right on the money, I could not believe the diff after doing this.....accels very hard and actualy feels harder than what it did with the light stk tires/rims.

I'm very happy with this setup but have not had a chance to test top speed but I can tell it will be good because this setup just feels right to me.......the only thing I will do is swap out the pri to his #2 spring so it holds the revs up a bit more on shiftout and I think it will be perfect.

As far as fuel ecconomy I was using about the same as my mate on his stk 650 sra with HMF slipon and Dynatek and that was when I had the clutch setup all wrong so now should be even better.

Very happy with the vfj clutch and the way I have it setup.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

kawboy1 said:


> Very happy with the vfj clutch and the way I have it setup.


Good, I am very interested in the outcome. Please do get us some videos of how she takes off and pulls now....


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Ask and you shall receive LOL. Here ya go nm......I had to be carefull from a standing start because she will just lift and flip when she finds traction!


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Nice!! Seems to hit good and hard...and pulls strong.

Nice looking place you have there by the way. Looks like a tropical island...kinda.


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Thanks nm


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## islandlife (Jul 4, 2010)

what do you mean by "shims under the spring for a total of 3" when you were talking about the primary, kawboy?


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

When you pull the pri spring it has 1 thin shim under it from the factory.....I put in another 2......think it just makes the pri spring act a little stiffer.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

kawboy1 said:


> When you pull the pri spring it has 1 thin shim under it from the factory.....I put in another 2......think it just makes the pri spring act a little stiffer.


Adds about another 200 rpms to the stall and ramps the pressure a bit more throughout the range...slows shiftout just a wee bit more.


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## kawasaki09 (May 8, 2010)

*anybody use vforce john clutch kits to run 32''s backs*

alright i gotta 09 brute 750 gettin 32'' silverbacks comin in soon. has anybody used his clutch kits to run a big tire like da backs or whats yalls opnions abt it??


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

He has a setup for tires right up to 32".......best to give him a call or ask a question tab on his website interstate motorsports........he knows his stuff when it comes to clutching, tuning anything to do with our kawies and more.


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## kawasaki09 (May 8, 2010)

thanks man i shall give him a call. i was gonna call him anyways because i wuz gonna a order a full muzzy and a msd which i wud have him tune it for me with da mods i got. so i seen his clutch kits thats why i wuz askin to see if anybody personally has used them with a big heavy tire. i want a clutch to handle da 32''s


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## xtreme02gt (Dec 14, 2010)

By the way guys I pulled the plug and ended up getting the stage III with spider mod, I have had it about a month now and I really (REALLY) think it is worth every penny and I paid $800 for a brand new hole primary clutch.


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Glad you like it!


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## Beachcruiser (Feb 27, 2010)

Is your 650 missing because the engine hasn't completely warmed up or is that how it is all the time?


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Nah it was warmed up before I took it out for that run.......thats what it sounds like with the crossover intake and stg 2 cams......mainly the intake that makes it like that.


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## J.Tal (Dec 9, 2010)

whats up fellas? first time poster here. My clutch should b back today from having the stage 3 spider mod. really lookin forward to it! Im running 31" s/w w/ a TC 5in lift. John was going to remove my gold primary for one of his own and he said to remove my 56g epi weights and 3gx belt for stock weights and stock belt and leave the red sec. spring in. He said this mod is great for lifted bikes w/ big tires. I'll b very happy if my motor aint screaming at 40mph.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

J.Tal said:


> whats up fellas? first time poster here. My clutch should b back today from having the stage 3 spider mod. really lookin forward to it! Im running 31" s/w w/ a TC 5in lift. John was going to remove my gold primary for one of his own and he said to remove my 56g epi weights and 3gx belt for stock weights and stock belt and leave the red sec. spring in. He said this mod is great for lifted bikes w/ big tires. I'll b very happy if my motor aint screaming at 40mph.


Wow..31" tires, 5"lift and now a VFJ Stage3.. and doing 40mph...That takes a lota stones man..lol.. Welcome to MIMB by the way. You are in the right place.


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## sjf323 (Mar 11, 2009)

J.Tal said:


> whats up fellas? first time poster here. My clutch should b back today from having the stage 3 spider mod. really lookin forward to it! Im running 31" s/w w/ a TC 5in lift. John was going to remove my gold primary for one of his own and he said to remove my 56g epi weights and 3gx belt for stock weights and stock belt and leave the red sec. spring in. He said this mod is great for lifted bikes w/ big tires. I'll b very happy if my motor aint screaming at 40mph.


 
be sure to post up about clutch...curious how this mod helps with the belt for the bigger tires...not really concerned about speed


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## J.Tal (Dec 9, 2010)

*vfj mod*

i mostly want it because a few of the guys i ride with have stock clutch set ups and its hard to run with em on the road. my 31's are smooth at 40mph BUT vfj is claiming i should get 40 to 45 mph... in LOW range and very possibly 60 mph in HIGH. thats crazy! i just dont want the high revs at 30 to 40mph. but come on, who dont wanna go faster!?


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## Beachcruiser (Feb 27, 2010)

60 mph on 31s...........:33: I have a hard enough time keeping my 27s from wandering around at 50mph


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Mate you doin well to hang on with that size tire at that speed......the clutch mod should work well for ya and offers gr8 belt grip.


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## J.Tal (Dec 9, 2010)

*vfj mod*

vfj said he guaranteed the belt wouldnt slip with this mod and the bottom end, mid, and top end would b much improved. i dont care for running low 60's either, especially thru the woods. but engine rpm will b lower, according to John, at normal speeds saving his claimed 15-20% fuel. thats a plus not having to carry a gas jug to ride around the house.


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Just an update with stg 3 spider clutch, 2 stk weights, 2 360 weights, maroon pri and stk secondary = super fast accel and top speed of 134 km/h (83.27 mph). Very happy.


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## xtreme02gt (Dec 14, 2010)

Wow!! 83mph. I would be scared to go that fast on a brute. I wonder what mine will do with 28's


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## J.Tal (Dec 9, 2010)

WHAT! thats F'N getting it Kawboy!


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## HondaGuy (Mar 2, 2010)

83mph, I like the sound of that! lol


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## 03maxpower (Jun 6, 2010)

i was at 77mph without going into the motor but now im getting an 840fst put in and if i have the nuggets to go all out ill let you guys know what it will do


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## kdixer (Apr 14, 2010)

J.Tal said:


> vfj said he guaranteed the belt wouldnt slip with this mod and the bottom end, mid, and top end would b much improved. i dont care for running low 60's either, especially thru the woods. but engine rpm will b lower, according to John, at normal speeds saving his claimed 15-20% fuel. thats a plus not having to carry a gas jug to ride around the house.


How does it lower RPM's without feeling bogged? I thought the whole point of doing anyting to the clutch is to increase RPM's so it will run closer to the engines "sweet spot".

Not doubting, just curious.


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## J.Tal (Dec 9, 2010)

what i meant was, with my set up my motor is maxed out at 42mph. I dont mind running it at around 30mph where it feels ok to handle the tire shake. after this mod my motor wont b revving as high as it WAS at 42 mph. or at least thats how i interpreted it when i talked to John. if hes guessing it'll b capable of 60mph it'll have to rev less at 40mph... or BOOM! big bore kit time! Some of the other clutch gurus coul better explain it. I cant imagine it either running a red secondary. I am running the VDI that supposedly does away with rev limiter so we'll see. Could b a grenade on wheels.


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

The way I understand it is(and I'm no clutch expert either)if you have a look at your stk pri clutch you will see where the belt travels to......it sits down in the pri a bit when its fully shifted out in high gear. 

With the vfj clutch it sits close to the top of the pri when fully shifted out so gives you an overdrive effect. So cruising say at 30 mph for example you will be in a higher ratio with the vfj clutch than the stk one therefore doing less revs for the same speed.

Sort of like changing gears on a ten speed bicycle.....shifting from the smaller sprocket on the front to the larger sprocket = less revolutions for the same amout of speed.

That is why you can see a fuel saving.....now if you're up it then thats a whole different story!

At a certain speed our clutches are fully shifted out regardless so the vfj clutch will be doing less revs compared to stk because the belt is allowed to travel higher up the pri due to the machining that he does.

Now dont make the mistake that I did and use a stiffer secondary spring to try and gain back performance from heavy but stock size tires(25-26") tires.....it works to a certain extent but not the best. The only time you should be running a stiffer secondary spring is if you have taller tires, rock crawl or mud bog in heavy thick mud.

Think of changing the secondary spring as the equivilent of changing diff ratios in your 4x4 or car to compensate for tire size.....it will get the revs back as close *** possible to what it was with standard wheels/tires.

To gain back your performance with our bikes it's best to concentrate on the pri clutch.......combination of weights and spring. You need to get it to shift out as close to max hp as possible......so if your motor is making it's max power at say 7000 rpm thats where you want it to shift out at.

If you are shifting out at 6200 rpm(using the above example)then you need a pri spring that has a higher shiftout rating to allow you to get the revs up closer to max hp before shifting.

Trust me when you get it right it makes a huge diff.......thats where talking to an expert like vfj can save you a lot of time and money as he will get you pretty close right away.

Sorry for the long post and hope I did not lose you all in my explanation?


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## J.Tal (Dec 9, 2010)

I finally got mine back from having some work done and im very pleased with the stage 3 mod. I had a full muzzy put on at the same time as the clutch mod and re-mapped my VDI for the pipe. But all that together I will tell you that this bike pulls like crazy from the time i hit it to the time i let out. I wouldnt have believed it if i hadnt rode it. A big improvement so far over just having a clutch kit. The bottom end feels much better and i was able to get another 8 mph top end by my speedo. If Phreebsd speed calculator is fairly accurate that would mean VForce John was right about being able to hit low 60's with a set of 31's and RED EPI secondary. All that being said I think it was worth $325 for sure! I'll know more when i can ride it some more.


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## 03maxpower (Jun 6, 2010)

First run on my 840 got it up to 75mph in a matter of seconds now I need different springs to change the shiftout so ill let you guys know when its done I know there is quite a bit left in it


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

I would try a vfj #2 pri spring, stk secondary. I would also try lighter than stk weights as your stg 3 spider clutch makes the stk weights act like they are about 3 grams heavier each.....try v force weights or 2 p360 with either 2 v force or 2 stk to see what you like best.


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## 03maxpower (Jun 6, 2010)

Thanks kawboy1 but ill take it to john and he will make it scream he did it before and he can do it again I dont know much about them and john isnt expensive so ill let him do it right


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Thats the best way to go, he knows his stuff and takes all the quess work out of it....he's a little to far from me LOL but has been very helpfull via PM's. Let us know how it goes and what clutch setup you run after vfj is done with it.


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## 03maxpower (Jun 6, 2010)

Will do


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