# brute force 650 jet help



## chrish051873

hi everyone

put a dynojet kit in a 2007 650 brute force 

put the clip on the fifth spot on the needle and also used the dynojet 36 in the front and the dynojet 40 in the rear carb

stock pilot jets

air/fuel screws are out about 2- 2 1/2 turns each..(screwed them in until started missing then backed them out until it smoothed out on each one)

plugs looked pretty layer of black carbon on first ring and electrode is almost a light tan/grayish color

stock air filter

also just put a HMF pipe on it as well

the problem i am having on this machine is that around 20 mph or so it will like sputter..but just for a mph or two

does not spit or sputter anywhere else in throttle position

do you guys got any ideas of 
there is no hesitation at all if i go to wide open ..revs right up !!

i have thought about changing the jets to a 140 in the front and a 144 in the rear ,,i dont want to run it to lean !! 

so my questions are

should i change to the bigger jets ??

should i adjust the clip postion on the needles ??

or are the pilot jets too small(what size are factory)

thanks everyone

chris


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## Bootlegger

PM me and I will give you my number...its easier to help you like that than trying to type 5 paragraphs. 

What did teh Dynojet kit call for on yours? I would try a 140F & 144R on the 4th notch....I know that Woodbutcher runs his on that and I am sure it runs great. I can help you if you like though.

Mark


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## chrish051873

the dynojet kit is a Q219

i also used there recommended settings for below 3000 ft as i am just about 1000ft above sea level

thanks for the help

chris


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## Bootlegger

I got your PM's just call when you can. we will get it figured out for ya....

Boot


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## wood butcher

im runnin 140-144 on mine with needle on the 4th notch


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## wood butcher

the dyno jet kit 06-09 is # Q220, the 219 is for the sra 650 and the 220 if for the irs 650 . i think the difference in the 2 is needle size


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## chrish051873

wood butcher said:


> the dyno jet kit 06-09 is # Q220, the 219 is for the sra 650 and the 220 if for the irs 650 . i think the difference in the 2 is needle size


yea

this is a straight axle 650


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## Bootlegger

that would be your problem if its the needle size that is different.


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## wood butcher

them u should have the right kit .


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## chrish051873

wood butcher said:


> them u should have the right kit .


thanks


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## wood butcher

u need to fill out ur signature that way we know what u got and what mods u have done . it will be easier for us to help u quicker


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## phreebsd

FABMAN posted these 2 items. The dynojet trouble shooting docs. see if anything in there may help you


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## chrish051873

phreebsd said:


> FABMAN posted these 2 items. The dynojet trouble shooting docs. see if anything in there may help you


thanks..these come with every dynojet kit that you purchase,and i also believe it is on there website....
but i have looked at it a bunch of times,thanks anyways

chris


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## chrish051873

hey wood butcher

did you change your pilot jets too ??

i am getting some popping coming from the carbs at less than 1.4 throttle




chris


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## wood butcher

no i didn't have to , i have no popin at all


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## chrish051873

hmmmm weird...me and bootlegger seem to think i need to step it up the pilot jet size...

does anyone know the factory size ?


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## wood butcher

well u know all bikes are different, what works for one doesn't for another. u know u get a good startin point and u have to work from there. keep us posted with what is right for ur bike


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## Bootlegger

to be for sure I would leave it on the 4th notch...go down one size below what was in it before you went up...see how it runs...clean the plugs before you do it...then look at them afterwards. 

I guess I gave the pilots away.


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## chrish051873

ok thanks for the reply
and again thanks for the help bootlegger

all you guys are great here !!


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## chrish051873

ok...changed the needles to the 4th clip down to a dj136 in the front and a dj140 in the rear

the hesitation at about 20 mph was still there....just kinda stutters,a little less gas it goes away or a little more and it goes away ??

so took back apart and now i got a dj 132 in the front and a dj136 in the rear....

the stutter at 20 mph seems gone...but now just above idle the front cyl. seems to be popping from carb with a slight backfire from exhaust.

i have had the idle mix screw all over the map from 0 to 3 turns...still pops

any ideas ??

thanks 
chris


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## Bootlegger

chrish051873 said:


> ok...changed the needles to the 4th clip down to a dj136 in the front and a dj140 in the rear
> 
> the hesitation at about 20 mph was still there....just kinda stutters,a little less gas it goes away or a little more and it goes away ??
> 
> so took back apart and now i got a dj 132 in the front and a dj136 in the rear....
> 
> the stutter at 20 mph seems gone...but now just above idle the front cyl. seems to be popping from carb with a slight backfire from exhaust.
> 
> i have had the idle mix screw all over the map from 0 to 3 turns...still pops
> 
> any ideas ??
> 
> thanks
> chris


If you go 3 turns or more you need to go up one size pilot jet


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## chrish051873

Bootlegger said:


> If you go 3 turns or more you need to go up one size pilot jet


are you suggesting that is what should be done next ?


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## Bootlegger

chrish051873 said:


> are you suggesting that is what should be done next ?


well...if it runs great but is lean at about 1/8 to 1/4 throttle...Yes! what size is in it now?


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## chrish051873

kawa650 said:


> I believe the SRA has 40s in them


dont know why,but i have never taken them out and looked at them but this is what i am told


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## Bootlegger

chrish051873 said:


> dont know why,but i have never taken them out and looked at them but this is what i am told


I have two new 40's in my box....if you need them let me know. You can have them free of charge.


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## chrish051873

Bootlegger said:


> I have two new 40's in my box....if you need them let me know. You can have them free of charge.


that is great....thanks

i will let you know

chris


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## chrish051873

ok guys...me again LOL

just for the record there was 40s in the pilot jets......i ordered 2 42s and 2 45s from rocky mountain...they were 3.99 each..shipping was 7 bucks for 3 day ups and i found an online coupon code for 10 %(every litttle bit helps) so i saved 1.60..lol for a grand total of 21.36

ok put the 42s in the bike

no more sputtering/backfiring from carbs..yooooohooo..

one question....when adjusting the mixture screw as i turn each in the idle increases...when it starts is that the point i want to stay at ??

thanks
chris


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## wood butcher

i think u start in and back out untill rpms raise and level off then back in 1/4 turn


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## Bootlegger

What woodbutcher said.....Glad that took care of you buddy...sorry I didn't have the jets.


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## chrish051873

no prob.....thanks for the help....i will let you know how things go after the ride


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## Bootlegger

Yes...let me know...I was glad to help you.


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## chrish051873

ok guys...just getting you guys an update

i have tried everything,,,moved the needle up and down...nuttin

pilot jets 40 is factory...went to a 42 then 45 then a 45 in front 42 in rear..nuttin

went down on main jets...from 144F 140R to 140F 136R to 132F 136R...nuttin

all this and it still had a hesitation a little over 1/4 throttle

some of this made it worse,alot of trial in this made it ALOT worse

what i ended up with was

needle on 5th notch
144 in the front 140 in the rear
back to the 140 pilot jets in both carbs

and it seems there is no popping through the front carb and no hesitations at all past 1/4 throttle

my guess the front was lean ???

is the 140 dj to small for the rear ?

and again to to keep up the only mods are a HMF pipe

thanks to everyone for the help on this

Chris


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## Bootlegger

chrish051873 said:


> ok guys...just getting you guys an update
> 
> i have tried everything,,,moved the needle up and down...nuttin
> 
> pilot jets 40 is factory...went to a 42 then 45 then a 45 in front 42 in rear..nuttin
> 
> went down on main jets...from 144F 140R to 140F 136R to 132F 136R...nuttin
> 
> all this and it still had a hesitation a little over 1/4 throttle
> 
> some of this made it worse,alot of trial in this made it ALOT worse
> 
> what i ended up with was
> 
> needle on 5th notch
> 144 in the front 140 in the rear
> back to the 140 pilot jets in both carbs
> 
> and it seems there is no popping through the front carb and no hesitations at all past 1/4 throttle
> 
> my guess the front was lean ???
> 
> is the 140 dj to small for the rear ?
> 
> and again to to keep up the only mods are a HMF pipe
> 
> thanks to everyone for the help on this
> 
> Chris


If above is not a typo...thats the problem...you are running a bigger jet in front and smaller in rear....you for example it need to be 138F & 142R.


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## chrish051873

Bootlegger said:


> If above is not a typo...thats the problem...you are running a bigger jet in front and smaller in rear....you for example it need to be 138F & 142R.



that is what is weird.....i had the 144 in the rear and 140 in front...front would pop thru carb.....so i said what the heck..i switched em..and now its all good...

should i increase the rear to 144 or go bigger ?


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## Bootlegger

On the directions for a six fifty SRA....what does it say to start with...Can't remember.


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## Bootlegger

chrish051873 said:


> that is what is weird.....i had the 144 in the rear and 140 in front...front would pop thru carb.....so i said what the heck..i switched em..and now its all good...
> 
> should i increase the rear to 144 or go bigger ?



If it was me I would have went up to a 142F & 144R before I would have switch them. How is it running right now?

OK...LOL. now I am getting confused. when you had to where it was running good but had a slight hesitation right pass 1.4 throttle...I would go back to that set up. and work your needle I guess....man this is hard not being there with the bike...LOL! DO you have a Dynatek CDI on it?


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## chrish051873

ok dj says to start with 5 th clip on needle 136 f 140 rear...it ran like poop..lol ( http://www.dynojet.com/pdf/Q219.pdf )

there is no dynatek cdi

alot of popping from front carb

went to 140f 144 r....

still alot of popping from front carb

swapped em

and its good

should i go up on the rear jet size ?


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## Bootlegger

If its good leave it....ride it for a few and check the rear plug...its its ok....then leace it.


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## chrish051873

ok scrap that set up to...hmmmmmm

im at a lost here,going back to dj setup,any other ideas ??


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## Bootlegger

chrish051873 said:


> ok scrap that set up to...hmmmmmm
> 
> im at a lost here,going back to dj setup,any other ideas ??



PM me your number....and I will call you. We will get it right. Trust me! I know that some can be aggravating....I have one in my garage right now I was wanting to burn..:zx11pissed: Then found a few things that had to fix on the carbs before I could jet it correctly...

One thing that I have forget to mention is sometimes there can be something wrong with the slides, Carb itself, something like that will cause you not to be able to get it right.....


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## chrish051873

ok

took bf650 back aprt today for the hundred time..lol

found out the choke got me...it was stuck

but while i was in there i changed out the jets...136 f and 140 r

seems to be running alot better

still have a slight pop/backfire when i hold the throttle at about half..

so i thought running lean

changed the jets

140 f 144 r
still had the small pop/backfire well more like a crackle

so i took the top off of the air cleaner and it cleared right up !! 

what should i do next ?? needle position is currently at the 5th clip..

im just confused now......nothing seems to be the right combination


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## Bootlegger

If you took the lid off and it cleared up....that means it was rich and it got more air and leaned it out. 

If it was good at 13six F and 140 R but had that pop at half throttle....put the needle on the 4th notch.
try that I am almost positive you will real close if not on.
sorry my #six key don't work...lol


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## chrish051873

ok bootlegger

back to 136f and 140r

needle is on 4th clip

stuttering is gone at mid throttle..

now it spits and pops out of the front carb,like it dont wanna run

when at 1/4 throttle thu 1/2 way....and it is worse with the air cleaner lid off too

let me know what ya think

and thanks for all the help !!


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## Bootlegger

chrish051873 said:


> ok bootlegger
> 
> back to 136f and 140r
> 
> needle is on 4th clipwi
> 
> stuttering is gone at mid throttle..
> 
> now it spits and pops out of the front carb,like it dont wanna run
> 
> when at 1/4 throttle thu 1/2 way....and it is worse with the air cleaner lid off too
> 
> let me know what ya think
> 
> and thanks for all the help !!


ok....Ok....leave everything like it is and only move the front up to a 138. I think that may fix it....for some reason I am thing something is up with the front carb other than the jetting. how is the slide in that carb? 

I think yours is the hardest one yet...lol I will call you just soon as I get a chance.


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## chrish051873

Bootlegger said:


> ok....Ok....leave everything like it is and only move the front up to a 138. I think that may fix it....for some reason I am thing something is up with the front carb other than the jetting. how is the slide in that carb?
> 
> I think yours is the hardest one yet...lol


ok...i cant do this the dj kit only comes with 136 140 144 and the 140 is in the rear right now.....crap its always something !!

as far as the slide,it looks fine to me,but not really sure what i should be looking for,there is no burrs on it or anything

should i put the 144 back in the front to see how it runs ? why is there always a smaller jet in the front ?

thanks again for the help


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## Bootlegger

chrish051873 said:


> ok...i cant do this the dj kit only comes with 136 140 144 and the 140 is in the rear right now.....crap its always something !!
> 
> as far as the slide,it looks fine to me,but not really sure what i should be looking for,there is no burrs on it or anything
> 
> should i put the 144 back in the front to see how it runs ? why is there always a smaller jet in the front ?
> 
> thanks again for the help


What kit do you have? It is the Stage One kit isn't it? I can't remember cause i talked to so many :thinking: This is a SRA bike isn't it? The rear usually has a bigger cause it gets let air and runs a little hotter. The Kit should of had more than four jets didn't it:thinking:


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## Hangingfor8

If anyone can help you fix it..... Bootlegger can. The guy is an absolute genius, but maybe not with computers with broken "sixes" though. lol:34:


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## chrish051873

Bootlegger said:


> What kit do you have? It is the Stage One kit isn't it? I can't remember cause i talked to so many :thinking: This is a SRA bike isn't it? The rear usually has a bigger cause it gets let air and runs a little hotter. The Kit should of had more than four jets didn't it:thinking:


yep came with these
1 Main Jet DJ120
1 Main Jet DJ124
1 Main Jet DJ128
1 Main Jet DJ132
1 Main Jet DJ136
1 Main Jet DJ140
1 Main Jet DJ144
2 Fuel Needles DNO304
4 Adjusting Washers DW0001
2 E-Clips DE0001
2 Slide Springs DSP031
1 Plug Drill DD 5/32
1 Screw DS0001

not sure why it came with such small jets...but it does(Q219)

also what should i look for on the slide ??



Hangingfor8 said:


> If anyone can help you fix it..... Bootlegger can. The guy is an absolute genius, but maybe not with computers with broken "sixes" though. lol:34:


LMAO....we can trade..i'll fix your 6(six) lol and you can fix this brute


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## Guarino113

haha. that seems like a fair trade


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## Bootlegger

Ha..Ha....Haningfor8...LOL. I got mad at it one day...:zx11pissed: Hit and the #Six key hasn't worked since...:thinking:

Chris...I swear. Yours has been the hardest by far...Its hard with it not being here...but usually I can get close with what people tell me. I am really starting to think something is up with one of the slides in the front carb....Man, I wished you lived close.

ON your slide....is it sticking//hanging and any point? Call my cell phone today if you can.


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## Bootlegger

Chris....call me and let me know....but like I said....worse case we will got back with the OEM needles.


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## chrish051873

Bootlegger said:


> Chris....call me and let me know....but like I said....worse case we will got back with the OEM needles.


hey bootlegger

well i had some time to "adjust" this thing...

moved the clips on the needle back to 5th clip

cleaned and lubed the slides as you had suggested(they were dirty)

still about 1/2 throttle was just crackling and popping out the exhaust

for the heck of it put the dj 144 in the front,was way worse !

put the 136 back in front and have the 140 in rear

changed back to the oem needles with the two washers under the needle

and its still crackling and popping out the exhaust

im at a lost....................bootlegger let me know when to call you,or call me anytime after 1pm tomorrow

thanks


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## fl kfv

what was the out come on this problem. my 04 kfv 700 is doing the same. thanks


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## Brute_dillon

Ur could be getting to much fuel and not enof air id try Replacing ur air filter or mabey getting racing plugs they burn hotter ??


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## tanowell

Everyone,

Did this problem ever get cleared up and if it did what solved it? I have the same bike with the same kit and same problems. Only difference is stock pipe and a K&N air filter. 
Anyone please let me know!!!!


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