# A few questions



## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

I was wondering what everyone here would recommend to do first for more performance? I have a 2007 BF650 and it runs good but needs more! Mostly bottom end. Right now it is stock. Should I go with a clutch kit, or a power module, or any other suggestions? And cheaper is better at this time. I want to put more power to the ground! I see all of these videos of people standing their bike up from a dead stop(wheelie) mine wont do it from a dead stop or without a small bump. Also has anyone went to a different plug? If so what and how does it do? Thanks for any help!


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Wont do it from a dead stop? You just not doing it right... You must not weigh very much. lol. You dont need a clutch kit w/ stock tires. A pipe and a programmer would be the best place to start IMO. Nothings cheap for the BF unfortunately.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Yeah a module will help you out. Also a worn belt will hurt you some as well. Not sure if this is the case but just trowing that out there.


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## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm the same. Tried several times but can't quite get the nerve yet.

I think mine won't come up, probably cause I'm a bit of a accident waiting to happen kind of person, but I know it will. Just need the balls and then the proper wieght transfer. Guessing once you get it the first time, it get's easier.

Where is the "how to" for that !!!


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## jackman (Dec 24, 2008)

no problems gettin it up here:haha:


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

hammer down and come back with the weight. when you think you're fin' to go all the way back just come off the trigger. the first time it'll scare you shatless and you were probably only a few inches off the ground. it'll become more natural after you do it more and wont feel as awkward/dangerous.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

KMKjr said:


> Where is the "how to" for that !!!


http://www.mudinmyblood.com/media/Brute_Wheelie.mov

:rockn:


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

I can get it to stand just not from a dead stop. seems like it's sluggish. belt wear shouldn't be an issue with less than 100 miles on it. I just need more power!!!


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

or you need to eat more! haha... Where is shelby at? You ever go down and ride at Carolina Adventure World?


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

I haven't been there yet. It's only about an hour and a half from here. I have been going to Lake Houser, which is only about 20 minutes away. And it's only $10 per day. It's pretty fun but I need a change of sceanery.
I don't want to change the pipe because of the noise level, I need to be quiet for huntin. But if I have to I will for more power/torque!!!<----- POWER JUNKIE!!!! Thanks for the help probably goin with a module first. If I go with a module and a double snorkle that should help some. And I got to get some better tires!!! Don't think I'll go real big yet, but I do want to step up a little bit.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Sounds like all you need is a Moose module or some thing similar then.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Yeah that's probably gonna be first.


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## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

Polaris425 said:


> http://www.mudinmyblood.com/media/Brute_Wheelie.mov
> 
> :rockn:


I am not suprised!!!


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## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

jackman said:


> no problems gettin it up here:haha:


Nope, that's never been an issue here either, but if the wife was a big as the Brute.......


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

you could do the stock exhaust mod on our site.... it isnt that loud. someone posted a video of it the other day.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

I saw the mod but not the video.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

here ya go:
http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2939&postcount=9 
[ame="http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k119/thunderhead_1001/?action=view&current=MOV05Amov.flv"]







[/ame]


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks! I'll have to check it from home tomorrow. Fricken work computers anyway:aargh4:


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

here's another one too:

exhuast sound clip


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

see how easy it was for him to pull a wheelie. that's what I want!!! probably doin this friday or saturday.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

stogi, what all mods does that guy have on this bike? (from the vid you posted that polaris425 reposted above)


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Ok, so when I put the moose module on, I don't need to jet the carb. right?


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## bruteforcerider13 (Jan 19, 2009)

power module 
i got the smae identical bike
and i have put a snorkel on it thanks to mimb
also if you are lookin for tires
i would highly recommend maxxis bighorns
my friend has them and he still has the original pair that he has put over 5000 miles on since 06 we do alot of "ridin", he has had only 2 flats and they are from metal in a mud hole


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## bruteforcerider13 (Jan 19, 2009)

and no you dnt need to jet the carb, all the module does is put more bottom end torq on and has nothin to do with jettin


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

I have a module on mine.... It's a good basic mod that does what they say it will do. Combine it with a 6*key and it'll bring that baby to life.:rockn:


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

how hard is it to do that 6* key... and how much $$?


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

phreebsd said:


> stogi, what all mods does that guy have on this bike? (from the vid you posted that polaris425 reposted above)


 
I think STOGI posted that vid.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Polaris425 said:


> how hard is it to do that 6* key... and how much $$?


And where do I get it? and thanks about the jetting info I didn't think it would need it but wanted to make sure


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

the key itself is cheap i believe. that dude kisssofdeath has a installation pictorial on his site. 
I tried to access it but it's timing out at the moment.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

KOD? I know him... Get his email address for me (cant get on HL) and I"ll talk to him about posting it here.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Polaris425 said:


> KOD? I know him... Get his email address for me (cant get on HL) and I"ll talk to him about posting it here.


 
He has this email address posted on his site.I'm not sure if its current or not.

mailto:[email protected]


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

Here's a link to DG's site where I bought mine at. http://www.700v.com/purchasekey.htm


Here's the install instructions. They are on a Vforce but it's the same on the Brutes and Prariies.
http://www.700v.com/degreekey.htm


You'll need a flywheel puller also.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

You think the six is the way to go not the 4?


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

josh13 said:


> You think the six is the way to go not the 4?




Yes. It puts your peak advance at 34*(35* is as fair as you can go without hurting performance). The main difference is with the 6* key/ module combo is it puts the initial advance at 11* . 

See the stock initial advance is 3*. The advance is kept low by the low speed retard built into the stock cdi. The retard holds it there till you reach 5mph. After that it goes to 5* then climbs to 28*. The stock cdi then drops the advance down to around 24* until it hits the rev limiter. 

The module takes away the lowspeed retard so it starts out at 5* advance but the rest of the advance mapping is the same as stock.

With the 6* key/ module combo it starts out at 11* advance , goes to a peak advance of 34* and drops to around 30* at the limiter.

The Dyna starts out at 5* but rises rapidly to 31*, but, holds it at 31* till it hits the limiter. With the 4* key / Dyna combo it would start out at 9* and peak at 35* and hold it to the limiter. 

I have rode other brutes with just the Dyna and I would say the 6* key/ module combo pulls much harder at the bottom end but it fades more on the topend because of the topend detune built into the stock cdi.
I like the combo better for the riding I do. I need most of my power in the lower 2/3 of the powerband .


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Sounds like what I want. Thanks!!!! I love this place!!!!:374230:
When I open the case will that void my warranty.


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## chemoman23 (Jan 5, 2009)

why can't you get on hl


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

They banned me because Im way to cool........................


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## FABMAN (Dec 18, 2008)

I wish I was that cool. lol


josh13 said:


> Sounds like what I want. Thanks!!!! I love this place!!!!:374230:
> When I open the case will that void my warranty.


 ^
yes if they find out. IF! do not buy anything from a dealer if you want a warranty. and do it right and no one will be the wiser. the book is on here so no worry there. this is a good mod and cheep if you do it your self. DG told me they make more power with the DG5 & the key then the Dana cdi.

As far as wheelies. I'm 200lbs and to keep my front down I need all of my 200 to be on top of my bars stock (on tar). Mash it all the way and hold it till your up. Hay are you in low? Keep it in high if you got stock tiers.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

I guess I can buy a new gasket online. I am 170lbs and running in high and i have to hit a small bump to get a wheelie out of it. once it does come up I can keep it there for a little while. I'll just keep tinkering till I get it the way I want it.


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

*IMPORTANT!!!!

One thing you will want to keep in mind after you install the key is that your TDC marks on your flywheel will be off. To find TDC you will need to use a piece of coathanger stuck in the sparkplug hole. Roll the crank over slowly until you feel the piston rise to the top and with both sets of valves closed. *


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

can I check the piston on either cylinder? What is the best way to know the valves are closed? do I need to pull the covers off on the top? Thanks for the heads up I figured the time would need set.


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

The installation the key doesn't effect the timing of the pistons or cam since you will not be removing any of the chains. But you will need to use that process later if you decide to set the valves , change cams , timing chains ect.... 

You can watch the rockers move the valves by removing the access plates on the rocker covers. When both lobes of the cams are pointing down and the rocker arm are up and have slack the valves are closed.

The timing and valve adjustment instructions are in the service manuals. The only thing you will do different is the process you use to find TDC.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

From what i see on the directions all they do is put the key in and put it back together. That is probably all I will do for now.

(Here's the install instructions I am refering.
http://www.700v.com/degreekey.htm)


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

Yep.... that's all. I would suggest before you install the key , clean the edges of it up some on a wire buffer wheel or emery cloth. That'll make it easier to slide into the key ways on the crank and flywheel. What ever you do don't hammer it into the crank.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

we've sheared a flywheel key or two in our day


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

I hear ya. I don't want that.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Anyone tryed the 6* key on a FI bike yet?


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

I got a question about snorkels now. When I look at the pics everyone has a black piece of plastic around the exit holes. My bike doesn't have this. Is that just a 750 piece or what? Mine is solid with the fenders.


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

I don't know .. The question would be how would it effect the timing of the injectors. You wouldn't want that to change.


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

josh13 said:


> I got a question about snorkels now. When I look at the pics everyone has a black piece of plastic around the exit holes. My bike doesn't have this. Is that just a 750 piece or what? Mine is solid with the fenders.



Yeah.. that's on the 750i and if I not wrong the 650i. The sra bikes don't have it.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

That was my concern too Stogi. Not sure if the key would work or not. maybe some smarter then me will know.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

josh13 said:


> I got a question about snorkels now. When I look at the pics everyone has a black piece of plastic around the exit holes. My bike doesn't have this. Is that just a 750 piece or what? Mine is solid with the fenders.


The 750I and 650I have this piece. The 650 SRA and Prairies do not have it.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Metal Man said:


> The 750I and 650I have this piece. The 650 SRA and Prairies do not have it.


That sux for my snorkel job when I do it.:yuck:


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

STOGI said:


> Here's a link to DG's site where I bought mine at. http://www.700v.com/purchasekey.htm
> 
> 
> Here's the install instructions. They are on a Vforce but it's the same on the Brutes and Prariies.
> ...


did you just send the payment through paypal and wait or do I need to contact them first? Thanks


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

Yep... make sure your paypal account has the correct mailing address. The paypal notice he receives will show the address to ship it to.

I'm sure you could just order it over the phone if you would like.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks!!!:rockn:


:mimbrules:


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

heck yeah we do!!  !!
:agreed:


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## 650Brute (Dec 18, 2008)

If your bike is an SRA the snorkeling will be a bit different up front due to the support bar.

And LOL @ the Brute wheelie "how to" videos......


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

So after installing the moose module my brute is much stronger from a dead stop and on the bottom end. I haven't got to ride it very much yet but love the improvement from the module and the exhaust mod. 
Today I helped my buddy decide to buy a 2009 BF 750,, He loves it and even thanked me for pushing him toward the BF. I must say WOW, I didn't realize the power difference in the 750 and the 650. I expected some but holy****!!!! If i would have known I would have got one of them instead. Oh well I still love mine, especially with the few improvements I have made so far. We were riding wheelies across my yard side by side for about two hours. We're goin for the mud tomorrow. Hope to get a few good pics.:rockn:


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## Mud Narc (Feb 5, 2009)

I put a clutch kit on a friends 750 and he has 31 laws and it will stand up from dead still and rolling. Mine will to with the 29.5's. And like everyone is saying its all about weight transfer along with traction and titanium one's. Wal-mart has them on the roll back pricing shelf. LOL just joking.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

what kind of kit did you put on it? Come with weights?


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## Mud Narc (Feb 5, 2009)

EPI and yes


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

__________________________
08 Brute Force 750
29.5 Outlaws
ITP ss 212
2in. HL Lift
EPI Clutch Kit
Scuba Diving Kit
* Ride it like you stole it
And mud narcs chasing you!!!!! *hahahahaha


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

:haha::haha: **** YEAH!


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Alright now another question. I have pretty much decided to get 27" Dirt Devil 2 x/t tires. Should Ido some clutch work or leave it alone? I don't want to lose much of my low end power.:scratchchin:


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

hmm... you could change the secondary spring to an almond. That will get your low end back and give you good grunt.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

OK, I don't know much about the clutch spring colors but I am pretty sure you do so I guess I will be going with the almond. Do you think it will add any extra power or be about the same? Thanks.


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## ranchermoe (Jan 8, 2009)

The almond secondary I just installed gave me a nice boost in low end. well worth the $28 I spent.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Yeah it will just be like getting your low end back... it should feel like it did w/ the stock tires on the bottom end again.... Put it this way, I have 26x12 MST's and I put in a Black secondary, which is the one under Almond, and almost the same as stock, along w/ a maroon primary, and when I hammer the throttle in dirt it will roost forever  :rockn: and when I hammer it on pavement, I can hardly keep the front end down :rockn:


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

Has anybody found out about the 6* key for FI bikes?
About the flywheel puller. I haven't opened my bike up yet to install my key but when I do can I substitute anything for a flywheel puller? I have a gear puller and access to lots of stuff to make a puller but I am not sure how the flywheel puller works. From the pictures I've seen it looks like a nut that tighten's down with a bolt that screws in and pulles the flywheel back. If I knew the size I could make one a lot cheaper than $54. Anyone that can help, Thanks.


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## josh13 (Jan 20, 2009)

:thinking:


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## Brute650i (Dec 17, 2008)

I wish i could help you but I dont have the slightest clue


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## FABMAN (Dec 18, 2008)

Well lets think about this. If you increase the timing like this (key). I think the injector timing will be sooner too and that's not something you want to mess with. If the fuel is shot out of the injector before the intake valve is open I cant think that would be good. Now that's assuming the spark and injector are on the same pickup va crank sensor. Now if you can get a hold of a programmer you can increase the timing and the fuel pulse and much more and you don't need to get down and dirty.


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