# primary clutch springs



## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

i have an 08 brute force 650 sra and ive done some mods to it already. the next area im wanting to look into is the clutch. i want to put an epi maroon spring as the primary and maybe a dalton overdrive clutch cover but i dont know where to find them on the net. does anyone have any sites or links you could share?


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

have you tried google? lol


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

erlandsonperformance.com


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

Pm sent


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

thanks for the info. i just ordered an epi maroon, pink, and almond springs. that should give me more than enough choices for now. and by the way would you guys prefere the dalton overdrive clutch cover for my brute?


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

No.... I wouldn't waste my money on it.


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

What size tires you have on it?


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

STOGI said:


> No.... I wouldn't waste my money on it.


:agreed:

You can acheive the clutching that is sutible for your riding style with primary and secondary springs.


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

i have itp terracross xds on itp c series 7 rims, i stuck with 25" tires to avoid adding too much weight


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## RDWD (May 11, 2009)

With those tires and the almond secondary you will be more than happy. I run 27" with an almond secondary and stock primary and it is plenty. Have fun and hang on.


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

im prolly only gonna use the springs for the primary clutch cause i dont know how stiffer springs affect the secondary clutch. i know it has something to do with backshifting but im not sure exactly what it does.


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

You really don't need anything for 25" Tara's. VJ mod would be great with those tires for better topend though. IMO


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

I think you will be good to go w/ the maroon in the primary & almond in the secondary, w/ only 25" tires you could have gotten by w/ the black sedonary. The almond MIGHT be too much for them but then again, you might love it.


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

i am eventually going to go with the vfj stage 3 clutch and i thought about getting the secondary lightened to. i might go with the almond secondary cause ive heard alot of people have that spring combo and it seems to work with their applications. i also just ordered the stuff to put an oil cooler on my bike. supposed to lower the operating temps by about 25-30 degrees.


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

oh and what belt life can i expect if i put a maroon primary on? ( dont wanna have to replace belts every few months)


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

josh88 said:


> oh and what belt life can i expect if i put a maroon primary on? ( dont wanna have to replace belts every few months)


The maroon won't hurt it at all...


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

dang, i just installed the maroon primary and what a difference that makes. who wouldve thought that just a spring change would make it that mean. i have my wheelie power back and i do donuts all day long. cant wait to get the engine mods done to it. thanks for the advice guys it really helped.


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Told you you would like the Maroon Primary


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

yea its killer, just waiting on my hmf exhaust to come in so i can install everything and have it rejetted. funny thing though, when i was doing the initial test ride with the maroon primary i got thrown off. didnt expect it to have that much low end torque. lol :lol:


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

josh88 said:


> yea its killer, just waiting on my hmf exhaust to come in so i can install everything and have it rejetted. funny thing though, when i was doing the initial test ride with the maroon primary i got thrown off. didnt expect it to have that much low end torque. lol :lol:


Alot of people don't realize how much changing the primary will help your power.....even if its a small primary like the Maroon one......wait till you try a Gold,Red, and up.....you will leave the line like a NASA shuttle launching


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## josh88 (Jun 23, 2009)

Bootlegger said:


> Alot of people don't realize how much changing the primary will help your power.....even if its a small primary like the Maroon one......wait till you try a Gold,Red, and up.....you will leave the line like a NASA shuttle launching


Sweet, who makes those springs, is it dalton or epi? id like to order those and try them out.


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

EPI is all I use.....Those have a HIGH stall and if your not Mud racing will burn your belt up.


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## Muleskinner (Apr 24, 2009)

Has anybody kept a record of the engagement and shift rpm's with the different primary springs?


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## 88rxn/a (Mar 2, 2009)

when i have VFJ machine my clutch im going to talk to him about his springs.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Muleskinner said:


> Has anybody kept a record of the engagement and shift rpm's with the different primary springs?


I would like to see some thing like that as well but it would be hard to keep up with. So many things come into play.

More then just the primary spring affect the engagement. Different clutch weights and clutch work all so play a big roll in engagement. Add in those factors along with the secondary spring and shift RPM's would be even more difficult to track.

I would say the best way is to get your engine dynoed to know what RPM range your looking for then get a tach and tune the clutch to your needs.Thats what i plain on doing soon as i can.Clutching by seat of the pants feel can only get you so far..lol


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## Muleskinner (Apr 24, 2009)

I am feeling my way around the clutching tips on the site. I have pretty extensive experience clutching sleds and so am a little confused by some of the set ups guys are describing. There should be no "stall" in a CVT, that will be from a mismatched primary and secondary squeeze force (primary has engaged belt but does not yet exceed the secondary force = slippage). Raising engagement speed results in an imperceptable delay in engagement not a "stall". Currently I am engaging at 2400 rpm and pulling hard to 6700 and settling out at 6500 under a good load. I have a power commander with the LCD display and record each test run.


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## Brute650i (Dec 17, 2008)

Muleskinner said:


> I am feeling my way around the clutching tips on the site. I have pretty extensive experience clutching sleds and so am a little confused by some of the set ups guys are describing. There should be no "stall" in a CVT, that will be from a mismatched primary and secondary squeeze force (primary has engaged belt but does not yet exceed the secondary force = slippage). Raising engagement speed results in an imperceptible delay in engagement not a "stall". Currently I am engaging at 2400 rpm and pulling hard to 6700 and settling out at 6500 under a good load. I have a power commander with the LCD display and record each test run.


Sounds like between the snowmobile world and the atv world we have a different meaning of stall.

The stall we are referring to when we say "stall" is that the clutch doesnt engage until X amount of RPM's above what stock is which I guess your calling engagement.

It would be pretty hard to screw up your springs enough to have the primary engage and slip because of to much secondary tension without the bike moving.

what springs do you currently have in? just curious


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Yep when people say 'stall' they mean primary engagement at a higer then stock RPM.


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## Muleskinner (Apr 24, 2009)

I am running a Dalton red secondary, blue primary with heel clicker flyweights with 3 grams added to the shoulder. Tons of low end pull. I was considering a shallower helix to get more backshift but I am doubting if it will be worth the effort. It holds rpm pretty well now. Thanks for clearing up what you mean by stall. I was wondering why people liked it so much.


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## Muleskinner (Apr 24, 2009)

Reverse that. Red primary and blue secondary.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Muleskinner said:


> I am running a Dalton red secondary, blue primary





Muleskinner said:


> Reverse that. Red primary and blue secondary.


Those are EPI springs...right?

You most be running pretty big tires.


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## Muleskinner (Apr 24, 2009)

28" mud bugs but riding at between 3500 and 6500 feet elevation.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Muleskinner said:


> 28" mud bugs but riding at between 3500 and 6500 feet elevation.


Yeah thats a big difference then were i'm at. I'm at 279 feet of elevation.


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## cattracks87 (Jan 11, 2011)

so i have an arcticat v2 and i have some heavy tires 26 exacutioners and going to super heavy black mamba but i cant ever get a straight answer on what to get for tons of torqe and powerr


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## byrd (Jul 14, 2009)

what size mambas


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## byrd (Jul 14, 2009)

nevermind i dont know y i even asked that. the lightest mamba they make is 55 which is heavier than the 31 laws and the 32 backs. i can tell u that most ever serious mudder on here with a brute 750 is running red/alm or yel/alm but there is alot alot of options but these 2 have some stall and low end grunt. u should put ur CC in ur signature


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## cattracks87 (Jan 11, 2011)

thanks that helps alot . i have not got the mambas yet but one reason i like ther weight is iam in a very hilly and mountany area and i like the idea of low weight keep me up right lol btw my cat is a 650 the kawi motor


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## byrd (Jul 14, 2009)

yeah i figured it was the kawi motor. those 650s r tough lil buggers


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

With those Mamba's...you will need to get some heavier weights. I would see what the heaviest EPI makes...I think its 60 grams. You will need a stiffer primary to compensate for the weights as well. I assume your getting the 27's....correct? The heavier weights will give it more belt grip. They will pinch the belt harder...but if you leave the stock primary it will up shift way to fast. To clutch yours the best you can for those tires your going to lose a lot of speed. I would do the 60 gram weights, Almond Primary and No less than a Lime Green Secondary...just make sure anytime you get in any mud your in Low Range. Actually if your riding a low speeds use low range anyway. Those are some Heavy tires and are going to be hard on the drive train. Good Luck!


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## cattracks87 (Jan 11, 2011)

well you actually nailed what i was thinkin about last night is there just too heavy and i have brok three axles and already replaced to rear ends so i think i will go with a lighter tire but it sounds like i need the almond yellow or red primary and mayb a lime green , green or maroon secondary for now i think ill just clutch for what i got the exacutioners are a heavy tire and is kinda hard to wheelie with these tires


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

cattracks87 said:


> well you actually nailed what i was thinkin about last night is there just too heavy and i have brok three axles and already replaced to rear ends so i think i will go with a lighter tire but it sounds like i need the almond yellow or red primary and mayb a lime green , green or maroon secondary for now i think ill just clutch for what i got the exacutioners are a heavy tire and is kinda hard to wheelie with these tires


No...you don't need a Yellow primary...you will have a ton of stall with that. Don't need the red either. For just any kind of trail riding I would not use anything an higher than an Almond. With what yo have now....a Maroon primary and Almond secondary would be great. I think you may have the colors mixed up a little...the Maroon color is a primary only.


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## cattracks87 (Jan 11, 2011)

i have known about springs for awhile but just now startin to understand them lol but thanks for the hint lol so i have heard that alot about the maroon primary and almond secondary next ? is just where to get these things and how much . can i just change the primary to a marron and notice a diff i no its a lot of ?s


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

cattracks87 said:


> i have known about springs for awhile but just now startin to understand them lol but thanks for the hint lol so i have heard that alot about the maroon primary and almond secondary next ? is just where to get these things and how much . can i just change the primary to a marron and notice a diff i no its a lot of ?s


Don't worry about the questions...lol. We all have to learn somewhere. I still ask them everyday...lol. You can get them from EPI. They are $19.95 each. Yes...you will notice a difference in your bike once you install them...especially if you have stock springs now.


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## cattracks87 (Jan 11, 2011)

sweet i will look them up now can i get away with out doin weights and and only doin one spring


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## kawboy1 (Aug 25, 2010)

Do the 2 springs.....maroon primary and almond secondary dont worry about weights. That will make it alot better.


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## cattracks87 (Jan 11, 2011)

*clutch*



kawboy1 said:


> Do the 2 springs.....maroon primary and almond secondary dont worry about weights. That will make it alot better.


 

ok so i just ordered the yellow primary and the red secondary you think that will work ? .... just kidding got the maroon primary and almond secondary now all i need to no is how to put on the secondary is there a video of this some where


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Yes....in the Kawie how too section.


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## cattracks87 (Jan 11, 2011)

*saweet*

:rockn:


Bootlegger said:


> Yes....in the Kawie how too section.


 just watched it thanks does not look to hard at all but we will see when they get here in a week


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## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

No Problem...most all members on here are good to jump in and help.


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## Tempsho (May 28, 2010)

Any update on how those springs worked out for you?


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## 09_650i (Jul 7, 2010)

hey guys i didn't know where to post this so i thought here would be a good spot lol. i have a friend who has a 1999 kawasaki mule 300 and it will not disengage the clutch. as soon as he starts it, it want's to go, he had it to the stealership and they told him there is nothing wrong with the clutch. thought maybe someone could heip out. thank in advance.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

09_650i said:


> hey guys i didn't know where to post this so i thought here would be a good spot lol. i have a friend who has a 1999 kawasaki mule 300 and it will not disengage the clutch. as soon as he starts it, it want's to go, he had it to the stealership and they told him there is nothing wrong with the clutch. thought maybe someone could heip out. thank in advance.


Well I wouldn't take it back to that dealer...lol. Sounds like he will just have to pull it down himself. Its stuck or deflection is way too tight....something...and it should be obvious.


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## 09_650i (Jul 7, 2010)

thanks nmkawierider i always appreciate your input. should the deflection be the same as in the brute's? i haven't seen the mule but maybe i'll go up to his place and see if we can see what's going on. thanks again


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## brute for mud (Jul 15, 2010)

what spring is better for low end the pink or maroon primary


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

09_650i said:


> thanks nmkawierider i always appreciate your input. should the deflection be the same as in the brute's? i haven't seen the mule but maybe i'll go up to his place and see if we can see what's going on. thanks again


I don't realy know but most Kawies are at least similar. Hopefully he has a manual.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

brute for mud said:


> what spring is better for low end the pink or maroon primary


The main useage for the primary spring is to set the stall and govern shiftout in conjunction with the secondary. The Maroon has a stall about 300 rpms higher then the stock and the pink is about half that. Although you can slow shiftout by increasing the resistance of the primary, you will not increase belt pressure unless you increase the secondary spring. If you are looking for more low end power, look first to the secondary spring, then find a good match for the primary. You can then do some detailed tuning if you want with some Dalton adjustable flyweights.


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## brute for mud (Jul 15, 2010)

i had maroon primary and green secondary liked it just went to almond secondary seams to have just as much down low may have belt deflection it was out of specs


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## brute574 (Aug 10, 2011)

Running a 750 with HMF Pipe, Dyna Box and 28" Swamp Fox II, What Color Springs Do you Think Would Work best??


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

brute574 said:


> Running a 750 with HMF Pipe, Dyna Box and 28" Swamp Fox II, What Color Springs Do you Think Would Work best??


Depending on what kind of riding you do, I suggest Green, light green or red secondary with Almond or Maroon primary. Send Bootlegger a PM on what springs clash. I think its Maroon and one of the greens.


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## brute574 (Aug 10, 2011)

I want my Snap out of the hole, but not give up topend. I ride a Lot of Mud, Sand and a little bit of Trails


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

I'd go maroon primary almond secondary. For 28's.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

brute574 said:


> I want my Snap out of the hole, but not give up topend. I ride a Lot of Mud, Sand and a little bit of Trails


Can't have both but can limit topend loss by staying with heaviest 5-loop secondary and lighter primary like pink or maroon.


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## oft brute (Jul 22, 2011)

nmkawierider said:


> Can't have both but can limit topend loss by staying with heaviest 5-loop secondary and lighter primary like pink or maroon.


 with one of john's clutches you can.


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## brute574 (Aug 10, 2011)

Not a Fan of John's Clutchs, Heard some Bad Storys.. Unhappy Customers


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## vogie (Jun 16, 2010)

brute574 said:


> Not a Fan of John's Clutchs, Heard some Bad Storys.. Unhappy Customers


Hmm this is the first I have read about this, maybe you could elaborate a little? I will be sending my clutch away in the next 3 months for his stage 3 clutching.

edit: if you could start a new thread I don't want to hijack this one.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Me too ^ I've never heard one single thing bad about VFJ...


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## brute574 (Aug 10, 2011)

Couple People over on kawierider say they got their clutch back and don't saw little/no difference in the performance.

I e mailed him and asked about what he does, he was VERY Rude in his Reply


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## oft brute (Jul 22, 2011)

very happy with mine, just like the other 99% of vfj customers. there is always that 1%.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

^ Exactly. Doesnt matter how good of work you do there's always gonna be 1 or 2 tools in the bunch who dont like you and speak bad of your work even when they might not have a legit complaint. I don't know their story but, I bet I could near about nail it down just by guessing... Anyway... enough about that and on with the topic at hand...

Besides... 100s of happy customers and 2 or 3 unhappy.. really, who are you gonna believe right... ?


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Polaris425 said:


> Me too ^ I've never heard one single thing bad about VFJ...


 
Me either...across all the forums I travel, never cought a bad word..


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## brute574 (Aug 10, 2011)

For all of you that have a VFJ clutch, how did it help your holeshot?? Top Speed?? I might just change my mind


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## oft brute (Jul 22, 2011)

like night and day!:rockn:


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