# To Optomize or not ???



## monsterbrute750 (Apr 13, 2010)

Well,hangin with a buddy of mine last night,who happens to be one of the best Kawi dealer mechanics in the area....He was working on a guys Brute that was running poorly.Turns out he was running really lean because he had added snorks and a slip on HMF.So here is what he told me the deal is..
1.If you run a full system with header and all,and you are fuel injected,there is no need for an optomizer.
2.If you add just a slip on silencer,you need the optomizer to correct the air/fuel mixture.If you don't the bike is going to run lean,get hot,and blow the motor.


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Very True....but if you want it run better get a PC3 and have it tuned on a Wideband commander and it will be perfect and you will get every ounce of power outta the mods you added. The thing to remember is not every bike is the same. The optimizer you can only add fuel you cannot take away any fuel below factory settings. In a lot of cases you may need to add fuel and one point and take it away at another....but your buddy is right. If its lean it will get hot.


----------



## monsterbrute750 (Apr 13, 2010)

I hear the PCIII is really good.But doesn't like water.
I'm leaning toward the MSD.


----------



## 03maxpower (Jun 6, 2010)

definately do the msd it is awesome my machine is night and day since i put it on


----------



## countryboy61283 (Mar 20, 2010)

Is it hard to figure out? Msd?


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

monsterbrute750 said:


> I hear the PCIII is really good.But doesn't like water.
> I'm leaning toward the MSD.


Are you sure your not talking about the VDI? My PC3 is under water 99% of the time....we all have them racing. You put them in a Pelican 1010 case. The case is $15. I have never heard of an issue with a PC3 in water...of course never seen anyone have one without a case. The VDI's that I have seen have water issues.


----------



## monsterbrute750 (Apr 13, 2010)

The PCIII. It was people that learned the hard way by not having them in anykind of watertight box.


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Any controller will not make it under water if its not in a Pelican type case. Anyone have a link to the MSD ones? Just curious at what all they do?


----------



## monsterbrute750 (Apr 13, 2010)

Hunterworks has a write up on it. Don't think they're a site sponsor so I don't wanna post a link.


----------



## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

monsterbrute750 said:


> Hunterworks has a write up on it. Don't think they're a site sponsor so I don't wanna post a link.


I bought my MSD from him, He wasn't the cheapest, but he had a pre-installed Muzzy pro tune, which I also bought from him as a Package deal including the complete Dalton clutch kit.


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

How are you liking the Dalton Kit? They have the Best weights.


----------



## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

Bootlegger said:


> How are you liking the Dalton Kit? They have the Best weights.


Love it.. I really like that I don't have to buy or change springs anymore when I go up in tire size. I just add or remove screw in weights to the weight arms, and I can do it without removing the clutch or belt.


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Yep...I just installed a Dalton on a demo Brute at work. What size weights are you running with your 28's?


----------



## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

Bootlegger said:


> Yep...I just installed a Dalton on a demo Brute at work. What size weights are you running with your 28's?


The Aluminum rivets in the end and 2 screw in weights on each weight arm. as recommended by Dalton's instruction... Has a nice amount of stall, and grabs really hard, I have the OEM belt in. I have a NEW HL belt and will get around to changing it, but it doesn't slip.. I wanna end up with my OEM belt as a spare.


----------



## vogie (Jun 16, 2010)

I have recently installed a 3" snorkel on my 09 750i Brute 4x4 and now sometimes it will backfire when I'm slowing down and my hand is off the throttle. I have stock exhaust and I was told that the EFI would adjust but I'm im not so positive on that now since this Backfiring issue.
My performance hasn't changed it still has tons of snap and whatnot just this annoying backfire which doesn't happen all the time just here and there.

I may need to do the PC or some type of mod to correct this or does anyone have any other suggestions? I am running the Premium octane fuel


----------



## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

vogie said:


> I have recently installed a 3" snorkel on my 09 750i Brute 4x4 and now sometimes it will backfire when I'm slowing down and my hand is off the throttle. I have stock exhaust and I was told that the EFI would adjust but I'm im not so positive on that now since this Backfiring issue.
> My performance hasn't changed it still has tons of snap and whatnot just this annoying backfire which doesn't happen all the time just here and there.
> 
> I may need to do the PC or some type of mod to correct this or does anyone have any other suggestions? I am running the Premium octane fuel


The EFI is a dumb EFI system, it adds full based off of RPM, It has a static full map. I t doesn't and can not make adjustments when mods to the exhaust, snorks or anything is done. I would have to have a TPS, MAP, Idle Bypass, O2 senors and a MAF... None of these like dirt and mud.

You'll need a aftermarket fuel controller. I suggest the MSD Fuel and Ignition controller, or PCIII these are the top 2 that do about the same thing. Fuel optimizers are band-aids...


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Thank you for the post above.....he is correct....EFI's do NOT adjust for mods...all they do is help when changing elevations. You will need a PC3 or another controller...yours is not too lean. It WILL eventually burn up the motor over time. Again Thank you N2OTorious....most think the EFI's will adjust....they cannot.


----------



## N2Otorious (May 10, 2010)

Bootlegger said:


> Thank you for the post above.....he is correct....EFI's do NOT adjust for mods...all they do is help when changing elevations. You will need a PC3 or another controller...yours is not too lean. It WILL eventually burn up the motor over time. Again Thank you N2OTorious....most think the EFI's will adjust....they cannot.


It would be soo nice to have a OBDII EFI on these things but they would break all the time because of the mud and water and sand....


----------



## vogie (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks a ton guys I will be looking into this shortly.


----------



## vogie (Jun 16, 2010)

would something like this eb what I am after just for a 2009?

*HMF Optimizer - Dobeck Gen 3 EFI Programmer - Kawasaki 750 Brute Force (08)*

HMF makes EFI easy with an Optimizer EFI tuner. Simply plug into the stock injector wire harness, make a ground connection, and you’re ready to go. This unit electronically 're-maps' fuel injection to deliver optimum performance. Adjustments for changing the conditions are easy – simply use the menu to adjust + or – and use the lights for a particular throttle range. With an HMF exhaust system and the Optimizer you can increase horsepower significantly over stock, and if you add a free flowing air filter or modify the airbox lid you will get even more horsepower! For this application HMF suggests you install the Optimizer with one of their exhaust systems to maintain the proper air fuel ratio. The Optimizer will prevent higher than normal internal exhaust temperatures


----------



## monsterbrute750 (Apr 13, 2010)

Yes that will fix your problem.


----------



## 03maxpower (Jun 6, 2010)

Vogie I have one for sale if you want it


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

vogie said:


> would something like this eb what I am after just for a 2009?
> 
> *HMF Optimizer - Dobeck Gen 3 EFI Programmer - Kawasaki 750 Brute Force (08)*
> 
> HMF makes EFI easy with an Optimizer EFI tuner. Simply plug into the stock injector wire harness, make a ground connection, and you’re ready to go. This unit electronically 're-maps' fuel injection to deliver optimum performance. Adjustments for changing the conditions are easy – simply use the menu to adjust + or – and use the lights for a particular throttle range. With an HMF exhaust system and the Optimizer you can increase horsepower significantly over stock, and if you add a free flowing air filter or modify the airbox lid you will get even more horsepower! For this application HMF suggests you install the Optimizer with one of their exhaust systems to maintain the proper air fuel ratio. The Optimizer will prevent higher than normal internal exhaust temperatures


The only thing is you can't go below factory settings on the Optimizer. Do you have snorkels on your bike? If not this will work.


----------



## vogie (Jun 16, 2010)

03maxpower said:


> Vogie I have one for sale if you want it


 I'm in Canada not sure if that is going to be a problem.

Yes I am snorkelled, since I put the 3" intake snorkel on I have had about 3 instances where my bike has backfired, all when I was off the throttle and slowing down.

I only have 400kms on the bike, I bought it brand new, in fact only about 4 months old and about 40hrs on it.


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

vogie said:


> I'm in Canada not sure if that is going to be a problem.
> 
> Yes I am snorkelled, since I put the 3" intake snorkel on I have had about 3 instances where my bike has backfired, all when I was off the throttle and slowing down.
> 
> I only have 400kms on the bike, I bought it brand new, in fact only about 4 months old and about 40hrs on it.


What kinda pipe you have on it? It sounds like its lean....but you you may need to add fuel in one place and take away in another. If your lucky you can find a map from someone who has a 3 inch intake snorkel that has had theirs tuned. Those are kinda hard to find a map for. You don't wanna run it lean for very long.


----------



## vogie (Jun 16, 2010)

Hmm, are you suggesting I switch to the 2" intake snorkel then? I don't plan on getting any kind of PCIII soon money is tight atm so maybe that would be the best until I get some funds?

FYI, I took it out yesterday for a good run, as long as I'm cruise around 50 - 80kms there is no problems, it seems when I'm running at lower speeds 20 - 40kms for extended periods that the backfire occurs.

I attached a pic of my snorkel.


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

When the motor is cool just check the plugs and see what they look like....that will give you an idea. The back firing at low speeds is most likely caused by a lean condition. You could probably get by with 03maxpowers optimizer since you have a 3 inch snorkel. Let me know what you plugs look like.


----------



## fstang24 (Jan 9, 2010)

well as some of you guys know ive sold my hmf slip on exhaust and am waiting for my full muzzy exhaust too come in, it is scheduled to be delivered on friday.....while i was running my hmf pipe i was also using the hmf optimizer, but am thinking of removing it when i install the muzzy as posted in this thread by monsterbrute, a programmer is not needed if you install a full exhaust system..... just want to be sure before i remove the optimizer and sell it


----------



## monsterbrute750 (Apr 13, 2010)

I am snorkeled with full Muzzy and I run just fine. An optimizer can "Fine Tune" your machine,but isn't a must. I'd say if you already have one,why not fine tune and get the most out of your bike?


----------



## DLB (Oct 8, 2009)

monsterbrute750 said:


> 1.If you run a full system with header and all,and you are fuel injected,there is no need for an optomizer.


Just to clarify. If I'm running the Big Gun full system with stock intake (no snorkels) I don't really need a fuel controller? About to install the Big Gun, and just want to make sure I'll be ok without a controller. I'd like to have MSD, but not looking to spend $375 on a controller just yet. That's more than what I paid for exhaust. lol


----------



## Mrtriptank (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks for the post. I have a 2010 750i and doing the snorkel now and was needing these answers


----------



## fstang24 (Jan 9, 2010)

no problem


----------



## joeseppy (Apr 17, 2010)

*confused??*

thinking about putting some sort of exhuast on my 09 efi brute.. but this is a little confusing, if you add a slip on you need a fuel controller , but if you doa full exhuast you dont? , how does that make sense?


----------



## filthyredneck (Feb 10, 2010)

The truth is, every bike runs different. Most of the time you can run one or the other (an exhaust or a snorkel) and usually have no need for a programmer, but in alot of cases if you have both then it usually means your gonna need to get a programmer sometime soon. I've ran my full muzzy with a 2" snork on my 08 brute and it ran ok, it was on the lean side though, definitely alot better when I put the PC-III on it.

"Killing Time Using Tapatalk 2"


----------



## Stimpy (Jan 26, 2012)

Like filthy said every bike is different. I put a the full hmf on mine and it ran lean with the snorkels. I added an optimizer only bc I was at nats and had to do something since my exhaust was trying to melt my plastic. I have a buddy that was running a slip on with snorkels and no programming with no problems.




100 things to do and wasting time on tapatalk!!!


----------



## levi8219 (Jul 5, 2011)

i just put on snorks and my bike and it still backfires every now and then. Im running a K&n filter, HMF swamp xl and HMF optimiser. 

Was thinking of going PC3 alot of peeps seem to be runing with them, hopefully it runs my quad better


----------



## bigblackbrute (Jun 3, 2009)

MSD hands down the best. Imo

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## mcpyro3 (Feb 23, 2011)

^^:agreed: i love my msd i've had it for about a year now and no probs yet


----------



## Mud magnet 2 (Apr 23, 2013)

levi8219 said:


> i just put on snorks and my bike and it still backfires every now and then. Im running a K&n filter, HMF swamp xl and HMF optimiser.
> 
> Was thinking of going PC3 alot of peeps seem to be runing with them, hopefully it runs my quad better


Mine did that two, so I figured it was running yo lean. I also have a k&n air filter. I put the stock foamy air filter over the top of my k&n to try and slow the air down going into the motor. It worked. My bike doesn't run hot like it used to and doesn't back fire when I back off the throttle. I still want to get a MSD though.


----------



## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

i have 2 inch snorkels on an 08' 750i ... do i need a programmer. doesnt seem to run any different other than a back fire now and then when i go from full throttle to no throttle. i have stock exhaust.


----------



## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

KawieKrizanek said:


> i have 2 inch snorkels on an 08' 750i ... do i need a programmer. doesnt seem to run any different other than a back fire now and then when i go from full throttle to no throttle. i have stock exhaust.



Backfiring on decel is a tell tale sign of running lean. Also a sign of an exhaust leak. If you can't find a leak, I'd recommend the MSD from Vforcejohn.


----------



## CaN_Am_RyDeR_1000 (Oct 22, 2013)

KawieKrizanek said:


> i have 2 inch snorkels on an 08' 750i ... do i need a programmer. doesnt seem to run any different other than a back fire now and then when i go from full throttle to no throttle. i have stock exhaust.



Yes you should.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KawieKrizanek (Feb 2, 2014)

2010Bruterider said:


> Backfiring on decel is a tell tale sign of running lean. Also a sign of an exhaust leak. If you can't find a leak, I'd recommend the MSD from Vforcejohn.


I do have a very small exhaust leak where the pipe meets the cylinder head... Gon a need a whole new new pipe though.. Any one selling the front cylinder exhaust pipe? 



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

Yeah, fix that leak first. Then re-evaluate the bike.


----------



## cookgio (May 1, 2012)

Hey guys don't want to hijack thread but I have s 2012 brute 750 I have 2 syatv snorkle uni air filter and just put a hmf swamp slip on with the hmf optimizser and having trouble tuning it can't seem to get rid of the full throttle popping anybody have same setup and willing to share setting on optimizer thanks in advance.


----------

