# CV boots, the run down



## Waddaman

Ok, so this isn't so much a straight off information thread as a gather of information on CV boots. It's something i've always had problems with (especially cv boots on rhino axles) and nothing ruins my mood while riding more then seeing a ripped boot.

Now I know we can order all sorts of styles, materials and sizes of CV boots given shaft size, cup size, dimensions for movement etc. But what are truly THE BEST type of CV boot?

Is it a thick stiff boot with lots of ridges? or is it a special soft but malleable material? What holds up to high angles/CV heat? What will with stand sticks/rocks? There are many many many different types of boots but you never really hear of people saying which are best, which is strange because there are so many variations. Post up what you know here, this information will help me as well as others im sure.


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## Polaris425

http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/47-general-tech-audio-info/20742-heavy-duty-cv-boots.html

These look promising.


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## sloboy

On my rincon I have had trouble with rocks breaking the stock bands causing the boots to come off. SO I have went to a 3/8" wide band on the cup and 5/16" on the bar, these bands are SUPA heavy duty. The boots I have received from Rockford are not thin type boots, these are thick heavy duty with a high heat tolerance. I have not ran the bike with these on it but I am going to use these boots on my rhino brand axles when they come in. Lets face it no boot will with stand sticks an large rocks. But I find it total B.S. for a boot to tear while putting in the axle or not even make it out the yard and the sellers of these axles are aware of this issue and not doing nothing about it or even offer a boot replacement kit (that I am aware of). And this was on a bike that only had a 3" lift, one with no lift. I undertstand that if you have some funky angles going on then be prepared to burn up boots, but running after market axles less than 30* angle then there should be no problem. I maybe wrong.


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## browland

I have tried many diff boots on lifted and non lifted. I am at 39* currently on my big brute with Mokey bars. So far i can trail ride for hours at a time, run thru dense harwoods, mud, paly in the sand , and make high speed passes tuning on pavement all on the same set of boots. And surprisingly , the name brand is fast boots. I made a write up a few months back about them as well as how to fix the boot tearing issues with gorilla axles on the big lifts. I do use an automotive CV band thou. Its wide and thick , I have had ZERO issues with this boot and have abused them greatly. Not the cheapest kit out there @ 18.00$ a kit, which covers one end of the axle, but they are extrememly pliable, and soft. The only negative I can say is the material it is made of has a high rate of friction, meaning at high CV angles the ribs rub and make a groove when new. But it seems to stabilize if you want to call it that after you get a few miles on them. I havent torn one up yet. Another plus is if you rip a boot, you can cut the old one off, and if able to clean the grease and grit and whatever contaminents out of the cups with out disassembly, there is a tools for these boots that expands the Fast Boot over the cup and all making replacement of a boot take about a quarter of the time, do it on the bike, and not have to beat hel'l from the cup to get it apart. 

Hope this helps some, 
BR


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## Waddaman

I've never had a problem with the bands on rhino axles, my outters usually are the ones to go right around the cup band from rocks getting caught inbetween the cv and a arm.

I thought about fast boots before and they would definately be much much easier to replace but.. to me I would rather take the time to put a stronger boot on it then keep replacing them. Are they really that stong?

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## JPs300

Rockford makes a pretty good boot but unless you have a dealer with a book handy it's hard to find size specs to fit one to your app. 

EMPI makes some great boots; they are actually an OE mfg for many automotive apps. They have an on-line catalogue that lists the dimensions, and are available from many parts stores(for instance, Napa's brand boots are EMPI simply using the last 3 digits of the empi part#, also available through on-line places like JCWhitney). LOTS of axle repair shops use EMPI as well. 

Personally, I preffer thermoplastic blended boots, with the smaller pletes & more of them. That style seems to do the best with higher angles & continuous running.


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## browland

Waddaman said:


> I've never had a problem with the bands on rhino axles, my outters usually are the ones to go right around the cup band from rocks getting caught inbetween the cv and a arm.
> 
> I thought about fast boots before and they would definately be much much easier to replace but.. to me I would rather take the time to put a stronger boot on it then keep replacing them. Are they really that stong?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2


Not sure they are really any stronger that other brands , my guess is the amount of stretch they take. I have several really thick boots that would appear to be a hel'l of a lot stronger I just haven't tried them all. I have a friend I used to race with that owns a CV shop here in Memphis . Over the 40 years he's been open he has a couple of rooms full of boots to try. When the cheap ol'e fast boots rip ill update with the next brand.


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## Waddaman

Is that what the "ridges" are called? Pletes? I can see your point about having more small pletes then fewer big ones, It seems the best boots people talk about on axles are usually designed like that.

What do you mean thermoplastic blended? just thermoplastic boots? The rockford CV boot's say they are made out of thermoplastic, but the pics I see of them they only have 3 pletes and are all about the same design.

Brow, what would your friend recommend as the best boot? If he has 40 years of experience he should have a pretty good idea.


When I sell my brute and get a can am lifted and law'd I really, really really don't want anymore CV axle/boot problems. And what ever design, brand, material comes out on top in this thread im ordering a whole stockpile of lol. Ripping a boot on average every 2 rides is just the biggest pain, especially when I run proper A-arm gaurds and really don't subject them to anything extreme.


P425: sorry I didn't respond to you earlier, was on my phone and the link you posted kept bringing me to some CDI thread from 2008 and I was confused lol. That thread is what gave me the idea for this one, to figure out what we should be looking for in CV boots.


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## browland

Waddaman said:


> Is that what the "ridges" are called? Pletes? I can see your point about having more small pletes then fewer big ones, It seems the best boots people talk about on axles are usually designed like that.
> 
> What do you mean thermoplastic blended? just thermoplastic boots? The rockford CV boot's say they are made out of thermoplastic, but the pics I see of them they only have 3 pletes and are all about the same design.
> 
> Brow, what would your friend recommend as the best boot? If he has 40 years of experience he should have a pretty good idea.
> 
> 
> When I sell my brute and get a can am lifted and law'd I really, really really don't want anymore CV axle/boot problems. And what ever design, brand, material comes out on top in this thread im ordering a whole stockpile of lol. Ripping a boot on average every 2 rides is just the biggest pain, especially when I run proper A-arm gaurds and really don't subject them to anything extreme.
> 
> 
> P425: sorry I didn't respond to you earlier, was on my phone and the link you posted kept bringing me to some CDI thread from 2008 and I was confused lol. That thread is what gave me the idea for this one, to figure out what we should be looking for in CV boots.


I actually bought 25 boots in the spring to try out from this guy, but before I got to use them I figured out how to prevent my boots from shredding in less than 2 or 3 miles. Havent changed one since. Do you have gorilla axles? Ill send you some to try if so.


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## Waddaman

Nah Rhino's. Bikes up for sale hopefully I won't need to change anymore boots... But my luck I probably will.. lol


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## wmredneck

Turner Just put all their boot kits on sale. 





If you can't duck it... Leave it alone.


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## browland

wmredneck said:


> Turner Just put all their boot kits on sale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't duck it... Leave it alone.


the turners I had recently made gorillas axles look like something off of a power wheels toy. They are massive. Not sure if the boots will be able to seal on even a rilla axle.

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Waddaman said:


> Nah Rhino's. Bikes up for sale hopefully I won't need to change anymore boots... But my luck I probably will.. lol


dude didnt you just finsih rebuilding that engine ? I know how you feel getting fed up with fixing more than riding but it seems like a big loss to absorb. You done with the ATV life or moving to another brand?


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## Waddaman

Going can am. I don't think I will ever leave the sport, but I wanna move to something new and different. Part of the fun for me is modding, and the brute can't offer anymore of that to me simply because there is nothing left I would want to put on it.

I was set to sell it before what happened. The deal was if it needed major engine parts it was getting parted out. If not I'd fix it and sell the whole thing. And thats what happened.

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## JPs300

Not sure if "plete" is the technical name for the ribs, but it seems to be the universal term for them. - Thermoplastic blended is generally what you see being called thermoplastic. They are a blended rubber that is considerably stronger than "SBR" aka natural rubber. True thermoplastic boots are what you see OE on the can-ams; it's almost like a hard plastic and won't handle a lot of angle w/o heat issues causing them to melt/burn out. 


Turner & Cobra both use EMPI boots. - Yes, most of Turner's joints are physically bigger than Gorilla's. 


The SATV rhino boots were lucky to last one ride for us, but as of yet we haven't had a single failure with the EMPI's(knock on wood, lol). I'm not even running any gaurds and haven't had a problem. - I run the same on my honda and they have been on there for several years, again with no gaurds.


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## Waddaman

So are the EMPI boots Thermoplastic? It seems the hard part isn't knowing which type of boot to buy, it's just as hard to find the ones you want to buy.

You say thermoplastic boots don't handle angles well? Does having a lot more small "pletes" help? dads got an 07 gade with OE boots still on it and they are just like you described, but he hasn't had any problems with them melting from high angles. I can see if you had thermoplastic boots and they only had a few pletes so they stretched and rubbed a lot they would melt but a lot of small pletes would allow it to take the angles wouldn't it?


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## JPs300

EMPI uses a blended rubber but I don't think they directly call it a thermoplastic. 

The smaller pletes seem to help considerably due to not being stretched as much through each cycle(compressed/mashed on tight side of joint, extended/stretched on open side of joint), but thermoplastic has a considerably lower temp rating than rubber thus it has less tolerance for friction created by rubbing itself when mashed together around the tight side of the joint angle.


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## Waddaman

Thats what I thought, looks like the CV boot that would do best for me is thermoplastic. (maybe not so much on brute there on high angles, but can am even with a 2" lift rears are not stressed at all so it needs something tough. Front cv's with lift are at quite a bind but.. that's what my dad's running with no issues) 

+ I've never had a cv boot rip from wearing out, they always rip because of sticks/rocks... I would much rather have them wear and rip a year from now (If I could keep any boot on there for a year I would be more then happy with that lol) then have them not wear and at any moment they could be ripped by a twig...


Well, now I know what I want for my application. and it seems this is how materials for CV boots play out for strength (flexibility would go in the opposite direction 3 to 1)

1.Thermoplastic Blend
2.Blended Rubber 
3.Neroprene


And I also know what I want for "design" of a cv boot. Lot's of small "Pletes" "Ridges" "ribs" what ever they may be called. So it they can take angles better with less stress and rubbing.


2 Final questions.

Now where to find a place to order a boot like this for certain sizes. Is there a site that could be used for this at all? or is it pretty much an impossible search?

And last, how can you tell the length you need for a boot, I.D's for the cup and bar are easy, how can you find or calculate what you need so it can properly plunge? (on plunging joints only of course, non plunge are fixed so you could just measure) Do you measure fully compressed and fully extended and look for the center distance? or go by fully extended measurement? or what?


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## JPs300

I usually just use the "center length" as you're talking; measure compressed & measure extended, then shoot for the middle of that. 

EMPI has a pretty good online catalogue that shows pictures & all specs; they can be ordered through many parts stores(such as NAPA, whose store brand are EMPI boots using their own preffix followed by the last 3 digits of the empi #) and many places on-line such as JCWhitney. - Average is $10-15 per boot.


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## Revolution

JPs300 said:


> I usually just use the "center length" as you're talking; measure compressed & measure extended, then shoot for the middle of that.
> 
> EMPI has a pretty good online catalogue that shows pictures & all specs; they can be ordered through many parts stores(such as NAPA, whose store brand are EMPI boots using their own preffix followed by the last 3 digits of the empi #) and many places on-line such as JCWhitney. - Average is $10-15 per boot.


 hey i was wondering if you still got the empi part number for the rhino axles front for a can am outlander 800?


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## JPs300

Revolution said:


> hey i was wondering if you still got the empi part number for the rhino axles front for a can am outlander 800?


I never changed any boots on my stock axles.


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## Revolution

JPs300 said:


> I never changed any boots on my stock axles.


 oh i thought i read that you changed your boots on your rhino axles to empi. i must of read that wrong


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## JPs300

Revolution said:


> oh i thought i read that you changed your boots on your rhino axles to empi. i must of read that wrong


 
Rhino's yes, I thought you were talking stock axles. - I'll look the #'s up when I get home today & post back tomorrow.


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## Revolution

ok sounds good thanks


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## Waddaman

back again. I want to know if its even possible to run thermoplastic boots on angles like these.. or if they will just pull off/rip. Thanks.


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## JPs300

That much angle is likely always going to burn through the boots over time.


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## Waddaman

How long though? These boots are being ripped every ride..

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## JPs300

You really should get more than that, 2-3 good rides at least.


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## Waddaman

Still shooting for more then 2 or 3 if possible lol. My front rhino axles the cv boots (older style) lated about 8 months and only failed due to wear... thats what I want...

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## JPs300

My EMPI's seem to go roughly 10months @ around 33*. At 35-36* still 8-10 months. - They are considered a regular rubber boot but seem to be great quality. Gorilla & Turner both use EMPI boots. 

The more angle, the more "rub wear" due to them mashing together around the tight side of the joint.


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## Waddaman

8-10 months is what i got out of my front rhino boots and i am REALLY impressed with even that.(they have boots like gorrila)

im not 100% but I think the one i ripped saturday was a rubber compound empi boot.. i asked the guys at cobra to send me some spare rubber compound boots and thats what i got. they are pretty hefty but still no go.. I will be replacing it with the same boot we will see what happens with that.

If i could find a boot that last 8 months on my rear axle i would be much more then happy. If you average my rides and ripped boots im ripping 1 almost every ride.. thats on all axles rhinos cobras etc etc.


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## Waddaman

I talked to the guys at cobra and apparently there is a thermoplastic cv boot from a 1990-2000 dodge caravan that will fit my axles same design as an oem can am boot. Im thinking that is exactly what i want.. but he said that you need to get them put on with a special banding tool or they will pull off because there too stiff/the angle? thinking i can just bring in my axle to the dodge dealer ship and get them to clamp my boots on.

seem like a good idea?


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## JPs300

Sounds like it would be worth a try at least.


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## Waddaman

Heres what the boot off a caravan looks like. Not as many ridges as I would like but looks to be right size and it is definately thermoplasic.

Gotta think about it..

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