# Brute now won't start need help



## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

So after my last ride I had to power wash under my seat real good because it was full of mud, I was worried that I might mess something up but it had to be done. Well it fired right up after i was done washing with no problems now a week later I go to fire it up and nothing. It just cranks. So I start by checking my fuses everything looks good. I was looking at one of the relays at the back and found a broken wire, I fixed that and still nothing. Need help where to start looking at:thinking:. Thanks


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Does everything on the pod come up like normal before you start it? I would unplug the ECU (key off) and make sure those connections are all clean and dry. Anything that was in the area of your pressure washing electrical, unplug and blow out and check for corrosion.
Good luck!


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## vogie (Jun 16, 2010)

Does the fuel pump come on? I had the same issue it would crank all day and no fuel was being pumped. Ended up having a corroded fuse box terminal for my fuel pump on the plugs underneath.

You can unplug the fuel pump/accessory harness to the fuse box, put your 10amp fuse for the pump in there and see if it starts or if oyu have a bud with the same fuse box ask to borrow it for a second.


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

wyo58 said:


> Does everything on the pod come up like normal before you start it? I would unplug the ECU (key off) and make sure those connections are all clean and dry. Anything that was in the area of your pressure washing electrical, unplug and blow out and check for corrosion.
> Good luck!


 Yes the pod all lights up like it should I am now going thru all the relays and cleaning them and putting some dielectric grease in them.


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

vogie said:


> Does the fuel pump come on? I had the same issue it would crank all day and no fuel was being pumped. Ended up having a corroded fuse box terminal for my fuel pump on the plugs underneath.
> 
> You can unplug the fuel pump/accessory harness to the fuse box, put your 10amp fuse for the pump in there and see if it starts or if oyu have a bud with the same fuse box ask to borrow it for a second.


Thanks I will check that tomorrow evening.


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

Any other Ideas I have checked the relays and the fuses and they all lokk fine when I crank it the FI light flashes


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## brutematt750 (Aug 24, 2010)

Sounds like you have the same problem I had yesterday. I had the rollover senser out of place after I fixed my fuel pump relay and then tried starting it before puting it back properly. Once i put the rollover sensor in its place everything works like a dam. The rollover sensor is the plug behind the relays at the very back. good luck hope this is your problem.

check out "brute won't start" thread. There is two pages on that one


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

Still trying to figure this out I have found 2 broken wires and fixed them and still nothing any other Ideas or anyone know where i can get a wiring diagram?


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

Look around the web and you can find the brute manual for free..if you can't email me a p.m at [email protected] and I will send you the manual tomorrow when I get home..


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

thanks_ have a copy of the manuels _


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## brutemike (Mar 23, 2010)

Just a heads up after u get it figured out pull the trey from under the seat and take wholesaw bit to it like the gas tank skid mod it works wonders.


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

I think I am going to be bald by the time I figure this out.....

So I found a broken green and white wire on the fuel pump relay(fixed that one)
I have checked the wires under the fuse panel and fixed the one that was bad

I have checked the fuel pump by jumping 12V to it and it dose work, but I am not getting anything out of the fuel pump relay on the Red and white wire that goes to the fuel pump. I am at a loss I have been tracin wires and I am not getting anywhere, I have swaped the relays between all three plugs and still nothing.



HELP


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## brutemike (Mar 23, 2010)

I know this wireing crap can be a pain but keep at it bud. A couple years ago on my 650i i lost power to my 4wheel drive switch i had the whole harness cut open checked every wire there and grounds but i traced it to the cdi it was bad but every thing else worked off of it so all that worked i did and all i had to do was unplug it and plug a new one in but owell i got all my grouds and other wire done good my way not kawies way so long story short just keep at it bud my hair grew back lol.:thinking:


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## Impact Fab (Jul 1, 2011)

Have you checked to see if you have fire? Ok so lets do this systematically...
1: Fire to plugs
2: Fuel (pull off line injectors and see if any thing comes out when you cycle the starter)
3:Compression...if you have a compression tester check to make sure that you have atleast 100...
If you have all of this and it still does not fire then your timing is off...

Just power washing should not break anything..Why are you finding so many broke wires...

If you have anyone near with a ECU swap it and just see if that is your issue...


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

randycj7 said:


> Any other Ideas I have checked the relays and the fuses and they all lokk fine when I crank it the FI light flashes


 
Randy if the FI light is flashing it's flashing a code. Go to the manual and look for the section on codes flashed by the FI light. There are some codes set that will shut down the spark, and injectors which means no start. If that light is flashing codes have been set. Go to 3-35 Fuel system (DFI) and start there it tells you how to get that code. Crankshaft sensor, shuts the engine down. Vehicle down sensor shuts the fuel pump off. If either of those two codes are present you will not get it started! Good luck, and keep us posted!


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

wyo58 said:


> Randy if the FI light is flashing it's flashing a code. Go to the manual and look for the section on codes flashed by the FI light. There are some codes set that will shut down the spark, and injectors which means no start. If that light is flashing codes have been set. Go to 3-35 Fuel system (DFI) and start there it tells you how to get that code. Crankshaft sensor, shuts the engine down. Vehicle down sensor shuts the fuel pump off. If either of those two codes are present you will not get it started! Good luck, and keep us posted!


I will check that out tonight thanks for the advice


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

Ok I think (hope) I have it narrowed down to the roll over sensor I am going to get a new one and try it out> I really hope it is what it is or I think I am going to have to bring it in and have it looked at.


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

Well no go any other ideas???? 

I have checked all the wiring under the seat and everything looks good, I have spark and I have confirmed the fuel pump dose work. Anyone know what systems control tuning on the fuel pump I am getting very frusterated trying to figure this out. there are no codes stored in the ECU either.


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Is the pump coming on for the 3 seconds when u turn the key on?


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

Nope it dose not come on for 3 seconds when the key is turned on at least not that I can tell or have seen.


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Put your meter if you have one on the fuel pump relay output and see if your getting 12 volts for the three seconds. also you could undo the fuel line somewhere and see if it's putting fuel out for 3 seconds. If it's not getting power then I'd still have to think either the roll-over relay or a power or ground problem.


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

The fuel pump is not turning on there is power to the relay but not to the output to the fuel pump> I have swaped the relay an nothing. I have traced the grounds and they all seam good. I am not liking this only thing I can think is the ECU not cool on a 1 year old bike with only 250 miles on it.


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## brute for mud (Jul 15, 2010)

then i would check your fuel pump by jumping it and see if it works if it dont work i would guess fuel pump


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

brute for mud said:


> then i would check your fuel pump by jumping it and see if it works if it dont work i would guess fuel pump


 I did do that and it dose work.:thinking:


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## brute for mud (Jul 15, 2010)

you know that the pump works so it is not getting power run down that circut are you getting power from the relay i would check their first and go from there


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Randy if the pump relay coil is getting power then the ECU is probably ok. So you have to be the trouble shooter on the pump relay secondary. Look at the wiring diagram of the pump circuit and follow the pump back to it's voltage source. Checking voltages as you go for each connection. One thing I'd do right off is to check voltage at the pump using the pumps ground ( in other words the two lines going to the pump ). Then check voltage at the pump again using the pumps positive terminal and the negative terminal on the battery. This will eliminate the "bad ground" possiblility. If there is no voltage with either test, start working your way back from the pump to the source checking at every connection. Eventually you will find the break in voltage.

On a side note you said that you found two broken wires after your washing. Have you traced those out in the circuit as to what they did and how they broke? You kind of have to be a detective here going backwards from when you lost the ability to start the quad. Also let me know what type of meter you have, analog, digital, test light? I need to know this to tell you how to check a circuit.


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## randycj7 (Apr 12, 2010)

wyo58 said:


> Randy if the pump relay coil is getting power then the ECU is probably ok. So you have to be the trouble shooter on the pump relay secondary. Look at the wiring diagram of the pump circuit and follow the pump back to it's voltage source. Checking voltages as you go for each connection. One thing I'd do right off is to check voltage at the pump using the pumps ground ( in other words the two lines going to the pump ). Then check voltage at the pump again using the pumps positive terminal and the negative terminal on the battery. This will eliminate the "bad ground" possiblility. If there is no voltage with either test, start working your way back from the pump to the source checking at every connection. Eventually you will find the break in voltage.
> 
> On a side note you said that you found two broken wires after your washing. Have you traced those out in the circuit as to what they did and how they broke? You kind of have to be a detective here going backwards from when you lost the ability to start the quad. Also let me know what type of meter you have, analog, digital, test light? I need to know this to tell you how to check a circuit.


I have both an analog and a digital meter. I am slowly checking back thru all the sensors and testing them using the service manual, it is just very teedious and I am running out of time to get this thing fixed as I leave to go Bear hunting on Aug 10th. I thank you for your help, I porred some fuel in the throtle bodys and when I cranked it over if fired on that gas but than stalled so I know the ignition is good. I will try tracing back thru the fuel pump circet and hope to find something. Iwish I could find what the ECU looks for to turn on the fuel pump so I knew what else to check.


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Ok the broken green/white wire to the pump relay is the power feed to the relay for the pump. Do you have 12 volts there with the key on?

Next the brown/yellow and the yellow red on the fuel pump relay do you have 12 volts there for 3 seconds when you turn the key on?

Let me know the outcome of those two checks with the DVOM.


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

UPDATE:
randy went through all the circuit checks on the fuel pump circuit. He found that everything was in order except the ECU grounding the fuel pump relay. We then looked at the vehicle down sensor and did all of the circuit checks outlined in the service manual. Everything checked out fine, so that left only one item the ECU. We think that the wires that were broken some how shorted to the ECU's pump relay wire and sent 12 volts to the ECU which cooked the transistor that operates the fuel pump relay's primary circuit. A new ECU will have to be put in at some point. The good news is he has bypassed that circuit with a switch and the rest of the ECU is fine, so he can ride it for now!


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