# Rookie-Deep water advice needed (Long post)



## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

New to the Forum. Was sent here by several members of kawieriders.
I've got a 2012 Kawi Brute Force 750i. Snorkeled, EPI clutch springs, radiator relocated, Outlaws 29.5x10 in front, 29.5x12 in rear. I had it lifted 3 inches with 32' black mambas, but after destroying 4 CV "cages" (stock axles) and shredding 3 belts, I decided to drop down to 29.5 outlaws and took the lift off completely. I may lift it back up later when I buy some better axles and I need to improve my riding skills at stock height first. Fairly new to the big quad scene. Used to have a Honda 400 foreman and a honda 450ex. So this is a huge quad in comparison. 
So basically, I'm a noob. Could really use some helpful tips and advice. Would love to be able to get in the nasty stuff you guys get into and know what i'm doing. This will be kind of a long post, but I'm trying to give as much detail as i can so you guys can give me the best advice possible.

I've been practicing my riding "control" in a pond in the woods right near my house. It's actually a great pond to learn in because it's only 2-3 feet on one end, and gradually gets deeper as you go towards the other end. The other end is 8-10ft. Not going there obviously. 

Anyway, I've been getting a little more brave this past week, and going a little deeper each day. Getting a feel for the bike and how it reacts in the deeper water. All was well until day before yesterday when I accidently rode into a drop off that instantly went from about 4 feet to at least 6.5 feet deep. My first reaction was panic, but i quickly regained my senses and tried to figure out my options. I've watched LOTS of videos on youtube of guys getting their quads deep, and watched closely how they control them in similar situations, so I did as much as i could remember as quickly as I could. I tried to throttle it slowly so that the rear tires would find the bottom and I was ok at first, but then bike suddenly started to tip to the right. Not sure why.. Uneven bottom maybe? I tried to jump over to the left side to bring it back up but it wasn't happening. (I'm only 5'6 135lbs) So I did the only thing I could and jumped in the water (drowned my brand new HTC inspire phone lol which i thought I left at home!) and literally had to swim for a few seconds and hold the right side of the quad up to keep it from swamping. It came VERY CLOSE to swamping. The water line was less than an inch from the top of my right snorkel. I finally found some ground under my feet and got it leaned back over.. 
However, I quickly realized I had a new problem. I was on my tippy toes,nose deep in water trying to guide the bike toward the shallower water and by this time it had floated to the top, which would have been great, except the rear end floated up much higher than the front, which in turn started to push the front end underwater and left me with basically NO control at all. At this point I had no idea what to do. I couldn't get on it because it would tip over, and i couldn't push the rear end down. I'm not sure if this was the RIGHT way to handle it, but what i ended up doing was putting it in 2wd and giving it gas, which brought the rear end back down and I hopped on and slowly crawled it out of the deep water. Needless to say, I went home after that and had to reboot my brain. lol 
I feel like I need to apologize again for the long post..
So here's my question. First, What is the best way to handle a tip over in deep water as soon as you feel it start to tip? Usually I just see guys move to the opposite side of the quad and that's all it takes. But I'm not 200lbs, so that doesn't exactly work out for me.. Am I just simply too small or is more about skill and technique? 
Secondly, Is it normal for the rear of the quad to float MUCH higher than the front? Is this because the bike is heavier in the front? Or is it because there's more air in the rear tires since they are wider than the front ones? Any way to correct this, or is it just considered normal? What tire pressure do you guys recommend when riding in deep water? 

If you took the time to read this, I greatly appreciate it, and would love to hear any advice or any helpful tips you guys might be able to give. 
Thanks!


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

By the way, I'm from Hammond, Louisiana. If any of you live close by and want to bring your quad over and come school me, I've got a pretty good pond to play around in and a couple hundred acres of open field and trails that I've got permission by the owner to ride on right down the street.


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## bigblackbrute (Jun 3, 2009)

Im guessing u have the old school 29.5 and if u do and u have the wides on back it will float up everytime. I them on my brute when it was new and im about 6'6 and 330 and they would want to float with me. I had to run hardly no air at all in mine. Another thing about riding deep water is making the bike go wer u want to and the key to that is body english. U have to lean the opposite way u want to go and turn in the direction u want to go. Best thing to do in deep water is to get the front end up and use ur body to lean and make it go wer u want to. Its jus takes riding and pratice and watching other people ride also. O yea and another reason the brute will float up in the rear better than the front is cause u have a big ol gas tank back ther that works like a cork if its not most of the way full. Most all of us on hear have been doin this since we knee high and have learned all the tricks over the years. 

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

Honestly you will learn yourself.....you will become your own teacher everyone handles stuff a bit different.....for me I took it a lil deeper each time.....do NOT get crazy and confident to quick and don't listen to ppl on the sidelines rooting ya on....the rear will go down if you gas it but when riding deep you only have to shift very little weight to get the bike to lean the way you want it.....do not jump from one side to the other cuz then your playing wave race on n64 lol and doing barrel rolls and you don't want that......

the wetter the better


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Agreed. Very slight body adjustments will usually be enough to counteract the roll. 

Try to sit exactly in the middle, towards the rear of the seat, let the front end float up, and use your body to slide to one side or the other (opposit of where you want to go, as mentioned). If you want to go a little right, lean a little left. 

Now if the quad starts to tip to one side obviously, you want to lean away. 

I always stayed seated as long as possible. 

Watch this video, about half way though the hole you can see the brute started to tilt a little, and I countered it w/ a slight lean the other way.


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

bigblackbrute said:


> Im guessing u have the old school 29.5 and if u do and u have the wides on back it will float up everytime. I them on my brute when it was new and im about 6'6 and 330 and they would want to float with me. I had to run hardly no air at all in mine. Another thing about riding deep water is making the bike go wer u want to and the key to that is body english. U have to lean the opposite way u want to go and turn in the direction u want to go. Best thing to do in deep water is to get the front end up and use ur body to lean and make it go wer u want to. Its jus takes riding and pratice and watching other people ride also. O yea and another reason the brute will float up in the rear better than the front is cause u have a big ol gas tank back ther that works like a cork if its not most of the way full. Most all of us on hear have been doin this since we knee high and have learned all the tricks over the years.
> 
> Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


 Never even thought about the gas tank! Good point! 
I'm definitely struggling on making the quad go where I want it to go in deeper water. So, Lean the opposite way, and turn in the direction I want to go. I'm glad I asked, because I have never heard that before. It sounds about as crazy as when I first starting riding street bikes and they told me turn the wheel the opposite way that you want the bike to go.. It took me a long time to get my brain to accept that. LOL.. 
So by leaning the opposite way, I'm guessing that it causes one of the rear tires to "bite" more, therefore pushing the quad in the opposite direction? And by turning the front tires the direction you want to go when they aren't touching any ground, it basically creates a paddle effect in the water? That sound about right? 
Thanks for taking the time to read and answer my questions. You definitely gave me some new tools to use. I can tell this is going to be a learning process. I'm all about learning.. I just don't want to swamp!


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

lilbigtonka said:


> do not jump from one side to the other cuz then your playing wave race on n64 lol and doing barrel rolls and you don't want that......
> 
> the wetter the better


 That is EXACTLY what it felt like. Nice throw back game! And a perfect example of what was happening! lol


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Exactly. Leaning to one side puts more weight on that rear tire letting it grab and pushing the oposit direction. 

Welcome to the forum too BTW.


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## bigblackbrute (Jun 3, 2009)

Wer exactly is hammond at bud. I. Live in NE Louisiana. All the above post r real good info and jus like tonka and i said it really jus takes riding and learning. 

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

Polaris425 said:


> Agreed. Very slight body adjustments will usually be enough to counteract the roll.
> 
> Watch this video, about half way though the hole you can see the brute started to tilt a little, and I countered it w/ a slight lean the other way.
> 
> Timberlane 1 - YouTube


Nice "save" , if you can even call it that. You made it look like nothing, but I've watched the exact same thing happen to other guys at Tower Trax (local riding place) and they almost always bail off or gas the hell out of it to recover. You make it look easy. 

I wish I had nice long pool that was like 5 feet deep so I could do intentionally tilts and saves without wondering how deep it's going to be if i have to step off and save it. lol :33:


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

Polaris425- Makes perfect sense now that you've put it in my head. You saved me probably months of doing the wrong thing lol. Thanks a lot! And thanks for the welcome. Glad I found this site. 

bigblackbrute- Hammond is about 50 miles south of McComb. Long drive for you! About 180 miles I think. LOL


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

I use to stop at the Petro in Hammond all the time.


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

Polaris425 said:


> I use to stop at the Petro in Hammond all the time.


That's about 5 minutes from my house.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

lol nice. I drove a truck for Boyd Bro's for a while & I use to p/u at the USG in new orleans alot. So I would always drive down and stay at the Petro, then get up that morning to make my run.


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## mini bogger (Sep 14, 2010)

I live in BR and would love to come ride but it will be a few weeks because I have a few leaky seals on my diffs. I stand on the back rack when in the deep stuff. I try and keep the front end up so the back tires stay planted on the bottom. always use 4wd when it's real deep. even if you feel a slight bump to one side immediately lean to the other side (slightly) and if you are ever in a situation where you think you might sink it, turn the ignition off and try to float it to dry ground. I run 7 psi in my all skinny 28" laws. I would run about 3 or 4 in the back and 7-9 in the front on your setup. here is a video from this weekend. I am on the yellow renegade. that is what you should do. my grandpa is also a "noob" to the deep water. he is on the red Polaris sportsman. that is what not to do lol. I ran and jump on his bike and rode it out.




as you can see I am not even 100 pounds and 5 feet tall on a good day lol. if I can do it anyone can.



"The ride says it all"


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

mini bogger- Wow, That was a close one! That thing looked like it was going to literally scuba dive to the bottom head first! I learned that lesson within my first few rides. Never gas it then let off fast in deeper water. It will dive! lol I have longer snorkels on mine thank goodness because I definitely would have drowned mine. 
Hey where is that canal road spot? I see a lot of videos of guys riding out there. I'd love to come check it out. I'll have to borrow a friends trailer though because my 750 doesn't fit in the bed of my Explorer sport trac. lol. 
Next time you guys plan a ride out there, let me know if ya'll want an extra rider!


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## mini bogger (Sep 14, 2010)

we don't mind if anyone tags along! it's in Gulfport ms. pm me if you want maybe we can set up a ride



"The ride says it all"


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

mini bogger said:


> we don't mind if anyone tags along! it's in Gulfport ms. pm me if you want maybe we can set up a ride
> 
> 
> 
> "The ride says it all"


 I tried to send you a message but it said you dont allow emails from users or something like that. Add me on Facebook. My name on FB is Shane Tweezy


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## mini bogger (Sep 14, 2010)

friend request sent. 



"The ride says it all"


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## bigblackbrute (Jun 3, 2009)

CBRSLIMT said:


> Polaris425- Makes perfect sense now that you've put it in my head. You saved me probably months of doing the wrong thing lol. Thanks a lot! And thanks for the welcome. Glad I found this site.
> 
> bigblackbrute- Hammond is about 50 miles south of McComb. Long drive for you! About 180 miles I think. LOL


How far are u from tower trax.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


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## mini bogger (Sep 14, 2010)

tower trax has no water. it would be pointless to try and learn there. but it's only like 20 minutes from hammond



"The ride says it all"


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## bigblackbrute (Jun 3, 2009)

mini bogger said:


> tower trax has no water. it would be pointless to try and learn there. but it's only like 20 minutes from hammond
> 
> 
> 
> "The ride says it all"


Never said it did have alot of water. Jus wandering how close he was to it cause we ride ther sometimes. 

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

bigblackbrute said:


> Never said it did have alot of water. Jus wandering how close he was to it cause we ride ther sometimes.
> 
> Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


 Yeah I'm only about 15-20 minutes from tower trax. I haven't been able to bring my quad out there because I don't have a trailer to haul it out there. Where are you from?


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## CBRSLIMT (Jul 2, 2012)

mini bogger said:


> tower trax has no water. it would be pointless to try and learn there. but it's only like 20 minutes from hammond
> 
> 
> 
> "The ride says it all"


Tower trax has no water? Is it completely bone dry? What about the deeper "ponds" out there? No water at all?


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## mini bogger (Sep 14, 2010)

they drained them



"The ride says it all"


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## bigblackbrute (Jun 3, 2009)

CBRSLIMT said:


> Yeah I'm only about 15-20 minutes from tower trax. I haven't been able to bring my quad out there because I don't have a trailer to haul it out there. Where are you from?


I live in winnsboro la. Its about 2hr drive for me..

FATBOYZ CUSTOMZ CREW


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## Tweek (Aug 5, 2013)

mini bogger said:


> I live in BR and would love to come ride but it will be a few weeks because I have a few leaky seals on my diffs. I stand on the back rack when in the deep stuff. I try and keep the front end up so the back tires stay planted on the bottom. always use 4wd when it's real deep. even if you feel a slight bump to one side immediately lean to the other side (slightly) and if you are ever in a situation where you think you might sink it, turn the ignition off and try to float it to dry ground. I run 7 psi in my all skinny 28" laws. I would run about 3 or 4 in the back and 7-9 in the front on your setup. here is a video from this weekend. I am on the yellow renegade. that is what you should do. my grandpa is also a "noob" to the deep water. he is on the red Polaris sportsman. that is what not to do lol. I ran and jump on his bike and rode it out.
> Canal rd June 30 - YouTube
> as you can see I am not even 100 pounds and 5 feet tall on a good day lol. if I can do it anyone can.
> 
> ...


So I got my first bike a couple weeks ago and I'm trying to get riding technique down. So far I've on been on two rides with water and both time the guys where telling me to ride in 2wd. When you say 4wd for deep water, what are you considering deep? We where playing in the cool down ponds at tower trax (about rack deep) and they said 2wd. Their reaon was that 4wd pulls the front of the bike down in water. Any help would be appreciated. 

BTW bike is 08 brute 28s/w silverbacks, intake and exhaust snorkeled.

ETA sorry for bringing an old thread back to life, figured it was better than starting a new one


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## whoolieshop (Mar 22, 2011)

Tweek said:


> So I got my first bike a couple weeks ago and I'm trying to get riding technique down. So far I've on been on two rides with water and both time the guys where telling me to ride in 2wd. When you say 4wd for deep water, what are you considering deep? We where playing in the cool down ponds at tower trax (about rack deep) and they said 2wd. Their reaon was that 4wd pulls the front of the bike down in water. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> BTW bike is 08 brute 28s/w silverbacks, intake and exhaust snorkeled.
> 
> ETA sorry for bringing an old thread back to life, figured it was better than starting a new one


You should find that riding in 2wd will bring the front end right up in water and 4wd will keep it down. I rarely put my bike in 4wd unless its a deep rutted out hole that's going to take a lot of work to get out of. I'm running 28" silverbacks as well and even hit most mud holes in 2wd. If I cant make it in 2wd i'll back up a bit and switch it to 4wd. The nice thing about silverbacks is if you go into a hole and cant make it 99% of the time they will allow you to back up and try a different line!


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## dodge2500 (Jan 3, 2013)

ya from my years of experince i ride in water that needs a water wheele in 2wd and i am on 31 out laws on a 07 brute but that is how i have always rode it is in 2wd just like whoolieshop said i dont go in 4wd unless i cant make it is 4wd on second try lol but the 31 laws with the qsc clutch kit makes it throw the frount end out the water quick so i just have to stay burping the throtal


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## wideawakejake (Sep 29, 2012)

same thing happened to me. had to bail and had no bottom to stand with the bike. im 205 lbs and when she started leaning and turning to the right.....nothing i could do. i wasnt so lucky as you. So i would say you did nothing wrong, as anytime you have a close call and make it out like ya did,,, you oviously did everything right. but dam i remember that bad night and it still gives me goosebumps!! sinking a new bike just sucks, so be careful ! and welcome to MIMB!! real good folks over here!


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