# No front brake first pull?



## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

Occasionally (seems worse when just going through water or if she's sat a few days), first time I pull front brakes, I have no pressure. One pump and its back to normal.

Bleed the crap out of them and no air. Recently put on new front pads, but problem was there before.

Not sure, but think it started after I replaced front brakes hoses (had them made locally). Hose was blown and drove it that night without front brakes.

Thinking master cylinder, but they work too good when they are working and happens so eratically, I doubt thats the issue. Then was thinking a caliper is sticking, but pads are wearing prefect.

Any ideas?


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## mathew_101 (Oct 17, 2010)

i have the same problem


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Its either an air pocket or a bad master. I know you bleed the wizz out of it, but sometimes there is a chunk of air that just wants to sit in a line or the top of a caliper.

If its air, it should feel just a little mushy compared with someone elses or as it was before....because air does compress. If its a master cylinder, if you squeeze the brake and hold it, then start pumping the last 1/8 inch or so, the cups should leak by and the handle will get closer to the bar....like a car's brake peddle going for the floor.


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## ARMSTRONGARMS (Dec 2, 2010)

Mine does the same thing and just started. Does it whether ive rode in water or just pulled it out of the garage. It has new pads on so know its not that. Fluid isnt low, i dont see how it would all of a sudden get air into the system. Im def interested to see what others find out.


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## racinjason (Dec 15, 2009)

wheel bearing maybe? I had a rincon that had a bad wheel bearing one time, and it would do like that, the rotor would wobble around a little bit and push the pads back just a little, one pump and bam it was back up to firm "pedal". Put a new wheel bearing in and the problem went away. Not saying this is your problem, but thought Id let you know to check it.


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## racinjason (Dec 15, 2009)

would like to add to nmkawieriders post, I have had brake fluid "foam" and bleed and bleed and never get it "right" and have to come back later after the air had settled out of the fluid. Especially if its a system refill or flush where I drained it. Does that make sense? Seems to me the cheaper fluid does this worse.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

racinjason said:


> would like to add to nmkawieriders post, I have had brake fluid "foam" and bleed and bleed and never get it "right" and have to come back later after the air had settled out of the fluid. Especially if its a system refill or flush where I drained it. Does that make sense? Seems to me the cheaper fluid does this worse.


Yep..seen it too. Also, if for some reason there is any vacuum in the master cylinder after applying the brake, in a short time of sitting it can retract the calaper and pull the pads away from the disk...so the next time you hit it, it had to move the pad back to the disk...taking like one pump. Hmm..try this. loosed the top and lift it up a bit, then pump the lever slowly and hold down pretty hard and while holding it, lock the top mack down. Also be sure the fluid is on the line, not much above it. It needs that air gap.


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## ARMSTRONGARMS (Dec 2, 2010)

^are you talking about loosening the mastercyl lid? and is the line inside(you have to take off lid to see? Also is there anyway to test for a bad wheel bearing without tearing it apart, my tires dont have any play. I cant take top of tire and shake and get play if that makes sense.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

ARMSTRONGARMS said:


> ^are you talking about loosening the mastercyl lid? and is the line inside(you have to take off lid to see? Also is there anyway to test for a bad wheel bearing without tearing it apart, my tires dont have any play. I cant take top of tire and shake and get play if that makes sense.


Then the wheel bearing is probably ok. Yeah the top of the master cylinder..and isn't there a line on the view glass on the side?


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## gcfishguy (Nov 21, 2010)

racinjason said:


> wheel bearing maybe? I had a rincon that had a bad wheel bearing one time, and it would do like that, the rotor would wobble around a little bit and push the pads back just a little, one pump and bam it was back up to firm "pedal". Put a new wheel bearing in and the problem went away. Not saying this is your problem, but thought Id let you know to check it.


I'm with this guy. The OP changed the hose(s) so I can see that maybe air is trapped in there and is being stubborn, other people replied that hadn't opened their system up at all.

If it's erratic, it doesn't make sense that it's air...air's either there or it isn't. It would be spongy every time.

I agree that it sounds like something is pushing the piston back into the caliper.....warped rotor, wheel bearing play....it doesn't take anything real solid or hard, I've had ice build up in one spot on the rotor face and when you brake the lever will pulsate (like the brake pedal in your car would, against your foot).

Regardless of where air is trapped, it's in the system, and has to compress each time you pull the lever. Since it's not there every time, I'd lean towards something pushing the piston back into the caliper.


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## coolinthewoods (Jan 2, 2010)

umm, I'm thinking you have a warped rotor. It wiggles back and forth and pushes the pads away from the disc causing to pump the lever. Or I'm totally wrong.


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## mathew_101 (Oct 17, 2010)

but then why after one pump is it back to normal and works good. its only the first pump when i get on it


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## ARMSTRONGARMS (Dec 2, 2010)

Me too, but its intermittent. Not every time i try to brake. And mine just started a few months ago when it was super cold out. I have no leaks, when i changed the pads the pistons in the calipers moved easy and werent stuck. The wheel bearings dont seem to be bad or have play. The rotors dont look warped visibly. And mine will do it intermittent when dry,first pull it out,after water/mud,while on trail,etc. just spuratic.


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## mathew_101 (Oct 17, 2010)

mine is generally just when i first jump on it. really scares the poop out of you when you go to stop


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## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

Last drive it only happened once? :thinking:


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

Off topic...Hey Matthew, could you post a pic of that old chevy in your avatar? I have a 63 that i'm putting a fleet side bed on right now. I love these old trucks. thanks. 

I hope you guys figure out what is causing your brakes to be soft. It sounds like it could happen to anyone. Good luck with that.


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## Big D (Jun 23, 2009)

If it's any consolation, I have the same problem with my cat. I have to fix that before I start riding this season.


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