# I need the truth!



## Brutus3458 (Oct 16, 2011)

:aargh4: Ok, got a new 2011 Brute 750i and cannot pull the trigger on building snorks (using MIMB) or any other brand for that matter. I think I've read way too many forums on the topic and it's clouded my judgement as everyone is saying something different. I talked to Highlifter and they tell me I will absolutley need a programmer and I talked with Snorkelyouratv and they say absolutley not. As for all the forums, they seem to be split 50/50. Whats the deal??? The quad is stock except for 26" Executioners all the way around. Would like to eventually buy a rad relocation kit but have to get through building snorkels first. Would prefer not to have to purchase an additional $300 programmer just to add snorkels. Would kinda defeat the purpose of saving the money and making them myself. There are way too many quads out there with snorkels for me to believe that you cannot just add them and ride. It cannot be that big of a difference in air flow, can it???????? Sorry to vent, newbie with an expensive new toy and just want to do right by it................:thinking:


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## BrutemanAl (Jul 3, 2009)

lol , I hear ya fella , it can get pretty confusing when reading about certain MODS for your bike . Seem's everyone has a different opion on everything , which is fine , everyone has an opion and share what they have experienced with thier bikes . For me what I have done in the past , is read up on stuff, find what everyone is saying , wether it is good or bad , and then just tackle the job at hand and see what the outcome is like .

I will say this , MIMB has by far been the most help I get from ALL 6 atv site's I am on . Dont get me wrong , the other site's are good also , but I find the members on MIMB will help as much as possible , no matter what you ride . I know some are on a few of the other sites i am on also . But this site is hands down , the BEST IMHO for DYI stuff and even stuff bought off the net .

Try not to be discouraged with all the info out there , I know it can be confusing and discouraging , and sometimes looks like the task you want to tackle is more than what you think you can handle , but if you run into a problem , the members of MIMB will step up and help you out im sure .


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## Crawfishie!! (Dec 9, 2009)

In MY past dealings with my old '08 brute 750 and not my wifes '09 650 brute is this: both of our bikes ran the same WITHOUT any sort of programmer....with snorkels alone. I have found after you add a upgraded exhaust or do the MIMB exhaust mod...you WILL need a programmer. 

If I read what you are asking/saying, is it safe to assume that right now your not planning on putting a aftermarket exhaust on your bike or doing the MIMB exhaust mod?


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Right. If you do nothing else but snorkles, and the size and configeration makes no change in how the engine gets its air and now much, there is no need for any programer. Nothing less then 2.5" (3" preferred).

Add a pipe or gut the stock muffler then yes,.. programer time.


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## jctgumby (Apr 23, 2009)

I have 2" snorkels and a T4 Procircuit exhaust with no programmer. I do run a little bit on the rich side but not enough to really notice. I would suggest a programmer if doing exhaust as well but I don't think that it is a have to get type of thing. As for snorks only you should be fine with no programmer. I say go for it.


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## hp488 (Sep 23, 2009)

jctgumby said:


> I have 2" snorkels and a T4 Procircuit exhaust with no programmer. I do run a little bit on the rich side but not enough to really notice. I would suggest a programmer if doing exhaust as well but I don't think that it is a have to get type of thing. As for snorks only you should be fine with no programmer. I say go for it.


:agreed: I have been running mine with 2" snorkels and modded exhaust with no programer since it was new, for some reason it started glowing the headers I don't know why or what caused it. I bought a programer from one the Mimb members and all is good. All bikes are not the same you will just have to try it out and make sure there are no problems.


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Either way, you go with snorkels or stick to the dry stuff with the ladies. Best thing you'll ever do is protect the engine with "snorkels". I presently have 2" intake but need to rejet since the previous owner punched the mufler out. I'm eventually going to try the 3" but dang it time is always an issue. Carbed yes but still he changed the exhaust making the engine breath better which in turn changed the air fuel ratio. Glowing exhaust here as well.


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

nmkawierider said:


> Right. If you do nothing else but snorkles, and the size and configeration makes no change in how the engine gets its air and now much, there is no need for any programer. Nothing less then 2.5" (3" preferred).
> 
> Add a pipe or gut the stock muffler then yes,.. programer time.


From what I have seen on here this is the closest thing to what is working. There is also the "brute factor", that no two seem to be exactly the same, even the FI models. I would not be affraid to snork it, but I would go with the 3" if it were me.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

wcs61 said:


> Either way, you go with snorkels or stick to the dry stuff with the ladies.


Oh...let me take you on some of.. _MY_.. dry stuff....hehe


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

nmkawierider said:


> Oh...let me take you on some of.. _MY_.. dry stuff....hehe


LOL X2


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## blue beast (Feb 16, 2010)

just snorkels ...you will be fine ..been runnin 2" for 3 years...wanna go up to a 3" some day ..


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## Big D (Jun 23, 2009)

wcs61 said:


> Either way, you go with snorkels or stick to the dry stuff with the ladies.


 
Hey!!!! :aargh4:


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

nmkawierider said:


> Oh...let me take you on some of.. _MY_.. dry stuff....hehe


Well you do have an excuse, need rain to make mud!


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

wcs61 said:


> Well you do have an excuse, need rain to make mud!


This is so true...


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## Brutus3458 (Oct 16, 2011)

Awesome info guys, I think I'm just gonna do it. I don't plan on changing the exhaust and for sure don't want to stay on dry ground with the girls and non Brute owners, ha. Now what about the size of the intake? 2" has seemed to be the norm and work ok for so long but now I'm hearing lots about running 3"? Agreed about the Site, thanks again guys


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Brutus3458 said:


> Awesome info guys, I think I'm just gonna do it. I don't plan on changing the exhaust and for sure don't want to stay on dry ground with the girls and non Brute owners, ha. Now what about the size of the intake? 2" has seemed to be the norm and work ok for so long but now I'm hearing lots about running 3"? Agreed about the Site, thanks again guys


Most people get by with the 2" but the truth is above about 3/4 throttle they do get a little rich. The ovel inlet works out to 2.19" so a 2" is already restrictive. Won't need the air though until closer to WOT so most mudders won't feel need. Just do the 3" and be done with it.


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## Brutus3458 (Oct 16, 2011)

Sounds good and I hate to beat a dead horse (bare with me) but it brings me to my original question: I've beel told that the EFI models can adapt very slightly to change in air/fuel mix but would need assistance via some type of programmer if a drastic upgrade were to be implimented. Going from a 2" to a 3" sounds like you're adding quite a bit more air then stock. I would think that if I was ok but already on the edge of being able to add snorkels with out adding more "harwdare", that now increasing the size of the intake by 50% would cause an issue? I guess what i'm trying to say is that while I understand I can add snorkels with no issues as long as I don't modify the exaust, what makes it ok to just increase the size of the intake without expecting issues? The intake and exhaust work inversley purportional, dont they?


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Brutus3458 said:


> Sounds good and I hate to beat a dead horse (bare with me) but it brings me to my original question: I've beel told that the EFI models can adapt very slightly to change in air/fuel mix but would need assistance via some type of programmer if a drastic upgrade were to be implimented. Going from a 2" to a 3" sounds like you're adding quite a bit more air then stock. I would think that if I was ok but already on the edge of being able to add snorkels with out adding more "harwdare", that now increasing the size of the intake by 50% would cause an issue? I guess what i'm trying to say is that while I understand I can add snorkels with no issues as long as I don't modify the exaust, what makes it ok to just increase the size of the intake without expecting issues? The intake and exhaust work inversley purportional, dont they?


The EFIs just run maps. They are an open loop system. No adjusting for anything on the older EFIs anyway. On the Snorkle, the factory restriction is the inlet port on the airbox. You won't be changing that with a 3". Just making sure you don't add any additional restriction with the extra plumbing.


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## The Big Bad Wolf (Mar 8, 2011)

you're making an assumption that the stock intake is 2 inches when its actually closer to 2 1/2 inches( not sure about your year brute)so then you are adding 20% not 50%. by doing 2 inch pipes you are slightly restricting air flow w 3 inch pipes youre giving yourself more air. you're not adding an inch you are adding a half inch which EFI brutes can "adapt" to.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

The Big Bad Wolf said:


> you're making an assumption that the stock intake is 2 inches when its actually closer to 2 1/2 inches( not sure about your year brute)so then you are adding 20% not 50%. by doing 2 inch pipes you are slightly restricting air flow w 3 inch pipes youre giving yourself more air. you're not adding an inch you are adding a half inch which EFI brutes can "adapt" to.


 
2.19" on the older ones.


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## The Big Bad Wolf (Mar 8, 2011)

thanks nmkawierider! so an 08 would be 2.19?


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## filthyredneck (Feb 10, 2010)

One of my buddies (MadeInTx on here) ran the 3" center snork on his old efi brute (i think it was an 09 750) with stock exhaust and no programmer and I never knew of that bike to ever give him any rich/lean issues...it ran great and didn't ever have exhaust headers glow

I now run the 3" after having the 2" for a couple of years and I just wish i'd done it sooner, it definitely breaths better now!
Fueling The Addiction Using Tapatalk


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## Brutus3458 (Oct 16, 2011)

That settles it! 3" center  snorkel it is. Appreciate all the input guys, really. Pretty strait forward/non confusing debate on this site, love it. I will be sure to post some pics as soon as i'm done! What's everyone painting the risers with? Looks like Krylon makes a spray paint that sticks pretty good to PVC. Also, i'm sure I could find it somehow but is there a write up on the stock list/how to for the 3" center snorkel like the one for the 2" i've seen on here?


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

The Big Bad Wolf said:


> thanks nmkawierider! so an 08 would be 2.19?


I think they are all probably all the same on the actual ID airbox inlet port size. So first, you don't want to put anything smaller on that port. Then you have to take into account all the turns and bends you want the air to now take to get to that port. Air like water doesn't like to turn so to help, we slow it with larger pipe and longer sweep turns. In any case, your goal should be to deliver air to that airbox inlet port at WOT..Maximum RPM.. like there is no plumbing on it at all...2" won't do it, 2.5" probably will with long sweeps, 3" darn-sure will no matter what.


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## Crawfishie!! (Dec 9, 2009)

Brutus3458 said:


> That settles it! 3" center  snorkel it is. Appreciate all the input guys, really. Pretty strait forward/non confusing debate on this site, love it. I will be sure to post some pics as soon as i'm done! What's everyone painting the risers with? Looks like Krylon makes a spray paint that sticks pretty good to PVC. Also, i'm sure I could find it somehow but is there a write up on the stock list/how to for the 3" center snorkel like the one for the 2" i've seen on here?


When I painted my wife's risers I used plastic primer from lowes...about $7 a can. Then you can paint with any paint or texture you desire. I have hers done in the black crackle paint and looks really well. 
I suggest using that plastic primer first to ensure a good bond for the top coat....here's a pic of her bike, maybe you can see her risers?


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Brutus3458 said:


> Sounds good and I hate to beat a dead horse (bare with me) but it brings me to my original question: I've beel told that the EFI models can adapt very slightly to change in air/fuel mix but would need assistance via some type of programmer if a drastic upgrade were to be implimented. Going from a 2" to a 3" sounds like you're adding quite a bit more air then stock. I would think that if I was ok but already on the edge of being able to add snorkels with out adding more "harwdare", that now increasing the size of the intake by 50% would cause an issue? I guess what i'm trying to say is that while I understand I can add snorkels with no issues as long as I don't modify the exaust, what makes it ok to just increase the size of the intake without expecting issues? The intake and exhaust work inversley purportional, dont they?


Like nmk said they are a speed density/ open loop system. However they can adjust to certain things like elevation and temperature. A speed density system is fairly limited to other changes however. Big changes in air flow through the engine will cause rich/lean conditions because the system is not set up to adjust or sense these changes. If it was a mass/airflow system it could adjust accordingly to changes added to it like exhaust. But I still think if you went with 3" snorks you will be ok because even though you are enlarging the intake, you are also adding bends or restriction as well. Also I would not change the opening size on the air cleaner box, just attach to it.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

One interesting thing that the carbed guys found is that when they take the front deflector off and run it without it or install a 3" snorkle on it, it does tend to lean somewhat. Apparently the tight "S" the air has to make getting around the deflector and into the inlet is part of the factory restriction...system....so to speak. When it is able to run straight in, its easier for it and it gets more with less effort causing some leaning. This might be why most of the 2" systems have been OK ..mostly. Hmmm...has anyone tried a 2.5" system?


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