# Whats the deal with Kawie 750 HP numbers vs Can Am 800 HP?



## kawboy1

Ok I know the Ham is 71 HP at the crank but I thought I read somewhere the Brute 750 was low to mid 40's! Surely thats not at the crank.....must be rwhp yeh? Only 50cc diff between the two....am I right in thinking this ?


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## WOLVERINE

From my understanding the 750 is 49hp and the 650 is 46hp at the crank. I don't know of any manufacturer that lists HP at the rear wheel as they are all trying to impress with bigger numbers so at the crank is always more, logically, as hp is lost in the drivetrain to the rear wheel.
I can only imagine how 71 Hp feels!


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## kawboy1

Ok so 22 hp difference at the crank....something seems a miss here to me....I have had a couple of goes on a mates Rene x and I gotta say it did not impress me much. Sure it has a higher top speed....but I was expecting a lot more of a rush than what I got! I have dragged him along the beach on my 450 and he beat me by a couple of quad lengths and sure he would have pulled more if we kept going. Haven't had a chance to run the 650 against him yet but I will. Where do the Hams get the extra power from?


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## Roboquad

There is no replacement for displacement. Unless you have a banchee... :rockn: endless top end


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## Brute650i

Except hp in a bottle. 

From reading the forums and talking to some folks that build both. The brute gets the hp to the ground better and pulls hard off bottom. The can am biggest problem is the clutch the use. It makes it feel soft on bottom end and the only way to get a lot of hp to the ground is by changing to a $2g. Clutch setup. You can not just fix it by clutch springs. 

This is most of the reason the lower hp brute can run close to the can am.


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## badazzbrute

It's that darn Rotax... Also, the fact that Kawi hasn't really made many changes to the engine since 05, set aside the addition of FI in 08... Kawi needs to update the brute and step up the game a little... I love my brute, don't get me wrong... I won't have anything other than a brute, just can't wait untill the new generation comes out... Besides, the brute is a torque monster... I'd prefer torque any day of the week... Like N2o said below, torgue is what gets you there... HP=good on sport bike... Torque=good on utility... Another thing to think about is how much can am's are losing through the drive train as compared to how much we lose? I don't know first hand, but it would be worth looking into...


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## N2Otorious

kawboy1 said:


> Ok so 22 hp difference at the crank....something seems a miss here to me....I have had a couple of goes on a mates Rene x and I gotta say it did not impress me much. Sure it has a higher top speed....but I was expecting a lot more of a rush than what I got! I have dragged him along the beach on my 450 and he beat me by a couple of quad lengths and sure he would have pulled more if we kept going. Haven't had a chance to run the 650 against him yet but I will. Where do the Hams get the extra power from?


HP, HP, HP, forget HP if you're going to play in the Mud...

Torque is King.

Think of it like this HP is the Legs(MPH).... You can have a Big HP engine with low torque, it will eventually get to the top speed, but with the low torque numbers it will take a while to get there.

Now a torque motor, will achieve top speed alot faster because it has the muscle(Torque) to spin the tires faster and harder and get the legs(HP) up to speed.

In the mud, you need torque not HP.


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## monsterbrute750

X2 on the Rotax engine. The thing has been around forever. It was used for years in their snowmobiles. And the old mx racers used to stuff them in Honda 250r frames back before there were better choices of mx quads. They put out alot of horses and they are bullet proof.
I raced a Renegade on Labor Day Weekend. We raced the 300 ft sand drag. I had him off of the start, but he pulled away mid way. He beat me by about 2 or three bike lengths, but nothing impressive. Found out from his buddy he was running a programmer and stock tires. You can see in my sig what my setup is. So honestly, I'm not impressed.


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## phreebsd

i checked the CARB filings because on the form they have to list power in kilowatts (kW) that the engine can produce. 

you can convert kW to HP by using the formula: 
Power (HP) = Power (kW) x 1.341 

can-am lists theirs at 52.6 kW (799.9cc) so that equals 70.54 HP
kawasaki lists theirs at 37.1 kW (749cc) which equals 49.75

that's a huge difference.

one thing to note is that can-am lists their fuel injection system as MFI and the kawasaki one is DFI.
multiport fuel injection? my dad's iroc-z had that and it hauled


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## 03dsglightning

Direct fuel injection .


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## DjScrimm

IMO the brutes don't have much torque..... it's got a ton of acceleration. I believe this is a common miss conception. Can AM's got the torque (rotating force), it's got the proper combination of HP and torque to be the dominant bike, hands down. While brute has the acceleration to wheelie and zip around all day. It's a night and day difference between the two machines, very different rides.


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## 03dsglightning

So ? What is the definition of acceleration ?


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## N2Otorious

03dsglightning said:


> So ? What is the definition of acceleration ?



http://physics.info/acceleration/
In everyday English, the word acceleration is often used to describe a state of increasing speed. For many Americans, their only experience with acceleration comes from car ads. When a commercial shouts "zero to sixty in six point seven seconds" what they're saying here is that this particular car takes 6.7 s to reach a speed of 60 mph starting from a complete stop. This example illustrates acceleration as it is commonly understood, but acceleration in physics is much more than just increasing speed.

Any change in the velocity of an object results in an acceleration: increasing speed (what people usually mean when they say acceleration), decreasing speed (also called deceleration or retardation), or changing direction. Yes, that's right, a change in the direction of motion results in an acceleration even if the moving object neither sped up nor slowed down. That's because acceleration depends on the change in velocity and velocity is a vector quantity — one with both magnitude and direction. Thus, a falling apple accelerates, a car stopping at a traffic light accelerates, and an orbiting planet accelerates. Acceleration occurs anytime an object's speed increases, decreases, or changes direction.
Much like velocity, there are two kinds of acceleration: average and instantaneous. Average acceleration is determined over a "long" time interval. The word long in this context means finite — something with a beginning and an end. The velocity at the beginning of this interval is called the initial velocity (*v*) and the velocity at the end is called the final velocity (*v*0) [v nought]. Average acceleration is a quantity calculated from measurements.

*a* = Δ*v* = *v* − *v*0 Δ_t_ Δ_t_ In contrast, instantaneous acceleration is measured over a "short" time interval. The word short in this context means infinitely small or infinitesimal — having no duration or extent whatsoever. It's a mathematical ideal that can can only be realized as a limit. The limit of a rate as the denominator approaches zero is called a derivative. Instantaneous acceleration is then the limit of average acceleration as the time interval approaches zero — or alternatively, acceleration is the derivative of velocity.
*a* = lim Δ*v* = _d_*v* Δ_t_→0 Δ_t_ _dt_ Acceleration is the derivative of velocity with time, but velocity is itself the derivative of displacement with time. The derivative is a mathematical operation that can be applied multiple times to a pair of changing quantities. Doing it once gives you a first derivative. Doing it twice (the derivative of a derivative) gives you a second derivative. That makes acceleration the first derivative of velocity with time and the second derivative of displacement with time.
*a* = _d_*v* = _d_ _d_*r* = _d_2*r* _dt_ _dt_ _dt_ _dt_2 A word about notation. In formal mathematical writing, vectors are written in *boldface*. Scalars and the magnitudes of vectors are written in _italics_. Numbers, measurements, and units are written in roman (not italic, not bold, not oblique — ordinary text). For example …
_a_ = 9.8 m/s2, θ = −90° or *a* = 9.8 m/s2 at −90° (Design note: I think Greek letters don't look good on the screen when italicized so I have decided to ignore this rule for Greek letters until good looking Unicode fonts are the norm on the web.)


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## 03dsglightning

I know  .. Acceleration is just a common word for trq.


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## 03dsglightning

03dsglightning said:


> I know  .. Acceleration is just a common word for trq.


You've got way to much copy and paiste time John lol.


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## N2Otorious

03dsglightning said:


> You've got way to much copy and paiste time John lol.


Actually "acceleration" is a result of "Torque".

Paiste? isn't that what strippers wear to cover up their nips?


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## 03dsglightning

Lol my phone changes spelling some times. Yes change in speed happens from torque which is acceleration. Thanks for taking half of my screen up to say that  lol


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## DjScrimm

They are in relation with each other, as are torque and horsepower. But acceleration is defined as change in direction, or rate of increase of velocity while torque is twisting force, IN VERY SIPLE TERMS. I don't know the numbers but theres no **** way the brutes got more torque than a can am. I used to think so too, because of that jerky powerful feeling when blipping the throttle. After taking my first physics, I think differently. Torque would be, when the tires are in a bind, which bike turns them better??????? I know the answer!


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## N2Otorious

DjScrimm said:


> They are in relation with each other, as are torque and horsepower. But acceleration is defined as change in direction, or rate of increase of velocity while torque is twisting force, IN VERY SIPLE TERMS. I don't know the numbers but theres no **** way the brutes got more torque than a can am. I used to think so too, because of that jerky powerful feeling when blipping the throttle. After taking my first physics, I think differently. Torque would be, when the tires are in a bind, which bike turns them better??????? I know the answer!


The brute can have better torque through a mechanical means. Bevel gears or final drive gearing... I don't know the answer... I know i love the brute, and am not impressed with the cost/performance of the canned hams. stock vs. stock


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## Roboquad

N2O:haha: LMAO.Physics E=MC2 ..Oh also wanting to see BF 900 Diesel...just a thought


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## bigblackbrute

brute still gets my vote for a torqe monster. i knw from seat of the pants feel that brute has mre low end and is a better pure mud bike bt if u wnt speed then get a canned ham. ive rode both and played in the mud wit both and the brute will always pull the tires better IMO.


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## walker

can am gets a few extra horse power cause they run lean from factory .. everyone knows lean is mean .. and kawaski's run on the rich side so thats a little less horsepower..


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## 03dsglightning

Mimb has brutes and can am ... Be pretty easy to setup a test


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## kawboy1

03dsglightning said:


> Mimb has brutes and can am ... Be pretty easy to setup a test


Now thats something I would like to see on MIMB.....if it can be done do it!

What I was getting at is they are both v-twins, both have FI, are within 50cc of each other and have a cvt transmission so to me 20 odd HP difference seems alot! Unless like someone posted above that the Ham loses alot more through the drive train.

Dont know why Can Am calls it MFI....To me that would mean each cylinder would have its own seperate fuel injector or maybe thats MPFI....I think they do have 2 injectors but only one throttle body where as the Brute has a throttle body for each cylinder. Someone said 2k to clutch the Ham right...whoa thats a lot moula for clutching!

IDK I have 2 mates both with Rene 800's one is an x 2009 I think the other is 07 or 08 std 800.....I have rode both and they dont give me that sensation of agresive acceleration that my sra gives me....even when it was stock before the few bolt on mods that it has now. I have not ridden a BF 750 so I dont know what it would feel like.

Anyway my vote is for MIMB to do a shootout between the 2 either stock or with similar mods......drags, mud runs, slalem, top speed, braking ect. Would love to see this.....I can just imagine it now......and in the green corner we have...lol.


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## 03dsglightning

Sounds good 2 me 2010 stock brute and 2010 stock outlander


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## N2Otorious

03dsglightning said:


> Sounds good 2 me 2010 stock brute and 2010 stock outlander


Walker has a new stock outty right now...

Who local(east texas) has a stock Brute?


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## rowdy-outty

DjScrimm said:


> IMO the brutes don't have much torque..... it's got a ton of acceleration. I believe this is a common miss conception. Can AM's got the torque (rotating force), it's got the proper combination of HP and torque to be the dominant bike, hands down. While brute has the acceleration to wheelie and zip around all day. It's a night and day difference between the two machines, very different rides.


Come on John (N2O) your a drag racer just like me and you didnt even hint to the fact of proper combination of Torque and Horsepower results in the fastest acceleration. But DjScrimm did, what good is tons of torque if it doesnt get you into your optimal HP range before it drops off? Not to mention that (FUN) instant throttle response is also the MAIN factor in Broken parts.


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## 03maxpower

anyone know the wheel hp on a canned ham stock or with mods id like to know


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## kawboy1

Ok heres a couple of interesting things I found while trying to find rwhp and torque numbers on the ham.....its from a Rhino forum where they are talking about Rotax your Rhino.

"If you’re thinking about a Rotax engine swap for your Rhino, here are a few things you should know.

650cc and 800cc Rotax V-Twin engines are found in 2006 and newer Can-Am Outlander and Renegades. The 800cc Rotax engine is the most powerful engine ever sold in a 4x4 quad to this day. In turn, the engines are an excellent choice when thinking about an engine swap for your Rhino. You can expect* 52whp and 44 torque and a top speed of 70+mph, with the addition of a Muzzy’s bolt on exhaust system* in your Rotax Rhino. This gives your Rhino roughly double the power that it came with from the factory. There are also many big bore kits available for this engine from a few different manufacturers such as Mr.RPM Cycle, and Woods Racing Products. You should know that a 650cc Rotax powered quad is much more affordable that an 800cc. This is good for the person who would be interested in a big bore kit, because the bottom ends, and transmissions are almost 100% identical. *The 650 has slightly lower gearing.* This is great for Rhino’s due to the extra weight of the vehicle. If you’re into BIG power, save yourself some money on your donor quad by buying a 650, and slap a bbk on top of it for some serious power!


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## Brute650i

The 2k for clutching is to get it to hold big hp and not burn belts or slip on hard launches. Tho both are cvt clutches they are totally different in the way the are put together and operate mechanically.


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## kawboy1

OK just found this info which is measured at the crank.

*New 2010 Can AM Outlander 800r XTP*

Horsepower (bhp): 71 bhp 
Torque (Ft Lbs): 53.8 lbs 
Redline RPM: N/A RPM 
Engine size (cc):800 cc 
Drive train:4-Wheel drive 
Transmission type:Automatic


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## byrd

I talked to a dealer and i was told the rotax 1000 is the exact same motor as the 800 except for a longer stroke and different map and it makes 85 hp at the crank. Its time for kawi and the rest of the atv competitors to step up to the plate


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## kawboy1

This is what I found for the Brute 750.

Carb models are rated at 50.9 hp and 43.8 ft.lbs

EFI models are rated at 49.8 hp. Could not find the torque but would think it would be a little more than carb model.


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## rowdy-outty

byrd said:


> I talked to a dealer and i was told the rotax 1000 is the exact same motor as the 800 except for a longer stroke and different map and it makes 85 hp at the crank. Its time for kawi and the rest of the atv competitors to step up to the plate


 I was told the block and heads are different. basically the same but block has different oiling set up and heads are alot larger


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## byrd

MonsterRenegade said:


> I was told the block and heads are different. basically the same but block has different oiling set up and heads are alot larger


I guess the only way to knpw is to trade the brute in lol i wish


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## kawboy1

So thats 10 ft.lbs more torque for the Can Am.......their clutching or efi map or both must suck because it sure didn't feel that was the case on the two I have ridden! Top end yes but off the line to a certain point no.....they seemed very "vanilla" in their power delivery to me. JMO.

Time for MIMB to do the shootout and see wich rules the roost in the real world!


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## swampthing

Face the facts boys n call it what ya want torque, horsepower, acceleration, blah, blah,blah.....Rotax engines have ALWAYS made more power in cc comparison and I don't see that changing (they did their homework long ago). The sad part is that the 650 Rotax has 10.2 hp more at the crank than the 750 Brute. HOLY CRAP KAWIE!!! Bout time someone at Kawasaki engineering dept pulled his head out......and realized that there is more than one company building a more reliable and efficient machine than they are. So, tomatoe, tomato.... Kawie has turned a blind eye to the consumer (can't even fix a seal epidemic) and Can Am has made a superior product that caters to it's customers. ROTAX FTW!!


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## throttlejock27

i would love to see a comparison test between the 800 outlander and brute 750. it would have to be a un biased test and make it fair.


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## kawboy1

swampthing said:


> Face the facts boys n call it what ya want torque, horsepower, acceleration, blah, blah,blah.....Rotax engines have ALWAYS made more power in cc comparison and I don't see that changing (they did their homework long ago). The sad part is that the 650 Rotax has 10.2 hp more at the crank than the 750 Brute. HOLY CRAP KAWIE!!! Bout time someone at Kawasaki engineering dept pulled his head out......and realized that there is more than one company building a more reliable and efficient machine than they are. So, tomatoe, tomato.... Kawie has turned a blind eye to the consumer (can't even fix a seal epidemic) and Can Am has made a superior product that caters to it's customers. ROTAX FTW!!


On paper yes.....but I want to know the real world difference not what the manufacturer "claims".

I'm not knocking the Can Am.....I think they are a gr8 machine and like the look of them although parts prices down here are ridiculous compared to Kawie. Also new Outy xt here is about 17.5k au.....Brute 750 about 13.5k au although you can find better prices if you look around. Are they that much better in the real world?

Heres a thing I dont understand.....down here we can NOT get a new Brute 650 or 750 in team green colour! WTF is Kawasaki thinking?


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## monsterbrute750

If Kawie upped the bar, as Can-Am has...you will be paying 13k to get a Brute. Are you prepared to do that ? I'm not !!
That is the reason I would never buy a Can-Am. I'm still kicking myself in the arse for spending 13k on my Rhino !! Much less on a quad !!!
Kawie rules the market on best bang at an affordable price. They are not going to change that to accomodate us gearheads when there is a ton of aftermarket parts to put on a Brute and still be under the price of a new stock Can-Am.


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## swampthing

kawboy1 said:


> On paper yes.....but I want to know the real world difference not what the manufacturer "claims".
> 
> I'm not knocking the Can Am.....I think they are a gr8 machine and like the look of them although parts prices down here are ridiculous compared to Kawie. Also new Outy xt here is about 17.5k au.....Brute 750 about 13.5k au although you can find better prices if you look around. Are they that much better in the real world?
> 
> Heres a thing I dont understand.....down here we can NOT get a new Brute 650 or 750 in team green colour! WTF is Kawasaki thinking?


 They aren't thinking.....or listening....or improving...They aren't doin nothing!!!


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## 03maxpower

well i found out there is a renegade nearby at a drag strip and is undefeated i dont know what he has done to it or anything this is what i hear and it races in a stock ute class which means no internal changes and im hoping to be able to go challenge him so maybe he will lose his undefeated season at the last race all i have is what is in my sig and it is by no means a slouch so we will see if i go i will let you guys know and this will be oct. 17th by the way i just got done on the dyno and im at 42rwhp did make a 52rwhp run but people i talked to said it was a fluke regardless the numbers from the machine mean nothing cause like i said it rips so ill keep you posted


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## 03maxpower

also i was trail riding with an outty when my machine was stock and i was by no means impressed that is why i think i can take this reney


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## Waddaman

Bf compared to caned hams.. speed can am will win, torque not sure yet, just got my dad's friends BF 2007.. few winters ago we raced across a river in about of foot a snow.. his has power commander 26" mudbugs at the time i think.. rene had 27" swampfox's with a custom plow mount on the bottom.. no question i smoked him, he had 2 people on bike but I won by a ridiculous amount, can't beat a rotax...


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## byrd

monsterbrute750 said:


> If Kawie upped the bar, as Can-Am has...you will be paying 13k to get a Brute. Are you prepared to do that ? I'm not !!
> That is the reason I would never buy a Can-Am. I'm still kicking myself in the arse for spending 13k on my Rhino !! Much less on a quad !!!
> Kawie rules the market on best bang at an affordable price. They are not going to change that to accomodate us gearheads when there is a ton of aftermarket parts to put on a Brute and still be under the price of a new stock Can-Am.


i beg to differ cuz jus like all markets when u have to products equal in pros/cons they begin to battle for best price which will most likely bring can-ams to a more reasonable price and may bring the brute up a lil but i dont mind paying a lil more for the brute if its made better cause u save in the long run. $13 seals, tie rods, belts, temp gauges, oil coolers all add up to a healthy price to keep r brutes running


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## throttlejock27

swampthing said:


> They aren't thinking.....or listening....or improving...They aren't doin nothing!!!


 if your so unhappy with kawasaki then why dont you just go spend 12 grand on a can am? i dont get it.... :bigeyes:


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## throttlejock27

byrd said:


> i beg to differ cuz jus like all markets when u have to products equal in pros/cons they begin to battle for best price which will most likely bring can-ams to a more reasonable price and may bring the brute up a lil but i dont mind paying a lil more for the brute if its made better cause u save in the long run. $13 seals, tie rods, belts, temp gauges, oil coolers all add up to a healthy price to keep r brutes running


 all depends on the rider and how you use the machine when you look at maintenance costs.


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## swampthing

throttlejock27 said:


> if your so unhappy with kawasaki then why dont you just go spend 12 grand on a can am? i dont get it.... :bigeyes:


That is exactly what I'm doing, trading in the Brute on a new outty soon enough. Frustrated with Kawie is the problem, too many issues with the Brutes that they have done nothing to change since 2005.


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## walker

the 1000 cc motors in the comander are the same motors that are in the spyder's the 3 wheel motorcycles.. its an 800 with a 13 mm stroke next year there true 1000 will be out ... horsepower are for dyno sheets .. torque is what makes the world go round ...


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## filthyredneck

monsterbrute750 said:


> If Kawie upped the bar, as Can-Am has...you will be paying 13k to get a Brute. Are you prepared to do that ? I'm not !!
> That is the reason I would never buy a Can-Am. I'm still kicking myself in the arse for spending 13k on my Rhino !! Much less on a quad !!!
> Kawie rules the market on best bang at an affordable price. They are not going to change that to accomodate us gearheads when there is a ton of aftermarket parts to put on a Brute and still be under the price of a new stock Can-Am.


:agreed: I think I still have less in my brute then what you have in the Rhino... granted I am having issues...but they have all been electrical related so far and the previous owner (I am the 2nd) did a hack job on the wire harness. Just think....stock bore, high compression build/cams, pc3 and all the other goodies. I should definitely be turnin out as much as if not more than Can-Am. Wish I had access to a dyno locally that wasnt expensive. (And when the friggin bike wants to run right)


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## kawboy1

03maxpower said:


> well i found out there is a renegade nearby at a drag strip and is undefeated i dont know what he has done to it or anything this is what i hear and it races in a stock ute class which means no internal changes and im hoping to be able to go challenge him so maybe he will lose his undefeated season at the last race all i have is what is in my sig and it is by no means a slouch so we will see if i go i will let you guys know and this will be oct. 17th by the way i just got done on the dyno and im at 42rwhp did make a 52rwhp run but people i talked to said it was a fluke regardless the numbers from the machine mean nothing cause like i said it rips so ill keep you posted


OK this sounds good....I would be very interested in the outcome, keep us posted and good luck.

Also I'm with you on not being impressed with both Renegades I rode. I didn't have my Brute 650 when I rode them so couldn't go head to head. IDK maybe the Hams put the power down real smooth and this is why I was not impressed....IDK.


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## kawboy1

You guy's might find this interesting.....std bore BF 750 vs modded Reegade with nos.


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## kawboy1

The extra 20 odd hp and 10 ft.lbs that the can am has over the Brute does'nt seem to count for much!


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## DrillersGoDeeper

throttlejock27 said:


> i would love to see a comparison test between the 800 outlander and brute 750. it would have to be a un biased test and make it fair.


FIND A STOCK BRUTE, STOCK CLUTCHING, STOCK EXHAUST, ON 28" BACKS, AND WE WILL PUT THEM TO THE TEST!! LOL

BUT HURRY, MINE WONT BE STOCK MUCH LONGER AFTER I GET HOME!!:rockn:


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## monsterbrute750

There you have it. The videos show you that the Renny will win, but not by 10k worth............


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## throttlejock27

monsterbrute750 said:


> There you have it. The videos show you that the Renny will win, but not by 10k worth............


 X2. there a little faster but definetly not enough to justify spending over 10 grand imo


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## DrillersGoDeeper

The place i bought my outty max from had the brute 750 for $7300 + ttl, freight, etc., and i got the outty max for $9200 otd...

Just gotta look around... Of course it didnt hurt that the sales guy was big on military and they knocked the price way down off msrp ($10, 870)


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## monsterbrute750

I paid $ 7450 otd with a 4 year warranty for my Brute.


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## fstang24

DrillersGoDeeper said:


> The place i bought my outty max from had the brute 750 for $7300 + ttl, freight, etc., and i got the outty max for $9200 otd...
> 
> Just gotta look around... Of course it didnt hurt that the sales guy was big on military and they knocked the price way down off msrp ($10, 870)


Wheres the deal in that? Thats not even an xt model you have correct? You got the base ham800?. Last time i checked base ham800's go for $9400msrp here tx. I paid $7600 cash out the door for my 2010 brute 750. Well I like canams there real nice quads and do have alot of cool features, like the dss security, bar rpm tach, just to name a few. Once i pay off my truck (in 2 years) I plan on buying a canam, so i can have the best of both worlds, but i honestly do love my brute, its been the best quad i have owned so far, am i not having alot issues with it that alot of people complain about, im not a mudder, i just do fast trail riding i guess thats y i havent had many issues......ftw the brute and canam!!!!!


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## DrillersGoDeeper

Dont quote me on this, but i wanna say i got a 4 year warranty with mine, but cant remember if it was 4 or 5 year...cant remember.

Anyways, not like its gonna matter either way after i start adding all the accessories i want....lol:d


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## throttlejock27

i paid about $7400 otd on my new brute 09 750 in camo. the camo was $300 more than the other colors that i could have got btw


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## rowdy-outty

monsterbrute750 said:


> If Kawie upped the bar, as Can-Am has...you will be paying 13k to get a Brute. Are you prepared to do that ? I'm not !!
> That is the reason I would never buy a Can-Am. I'm still kicking myself in the arse for spending 13k on my Rhino !! Much less on a quad !!!
> Kawie rules the market on best bang at an affordable price. They are not going to change that to accomodate us gearheads when there is a ton of aftermarket parts to put on a Brute and still be under the price of a new stock Can-Am.


 :agreed: The brute is definitly the best bike bang for your buck. The low end power on a brute is a kick in the butt and more than enough to go anywhere or do anything you want to do with them with the exception of out running a Can AM. N2O's brute really impressed me the last time we rode. His bike has alot more initial snap than mine does but he has pretty good money in mods too. still very impressive!


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## jrfonte

N2Otorious said:


> Walker has a new stock outty right now...
> 
> Who local(east texas) has a stock Brute?


I've got an 10 750 with just the timing module thing, maroon price almond sec,28 outlaws on it. All can be easily changed back to stock.


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## badazzbrute

The way I see it is that everyone likes what they like... My personal opinion is that I love my brute, and at this point, would not have a can am... But thats just me... As far as the can am being faster than the brute, the type of riding I do, speed isn't even a factor... Seldom do I move faster than 10 or 15mph anyway... So, what I am looking for is that low end, initial grunt... Can am guys love their bikes, and probably wouldn't have a brute, so to each his own... I have raced my brute on one occasion... Did pretty good to, I may add...


----------



## walker

well i will give my opionion on my wife's 650 outty max in a few days.. will be stock clutch with 28 backs same setup as driller except skinny's in front.. i will say that i know the can am's are electrical nightmares already been told.. not goin to mess with clutch till its time to go big thats the walker way.. i know there is only 8 horsepower difference between the 650 and 800 .. she didnt need a 800 and and i figured a 500 would be gutless when i put the big dogs on it.. i have come to love my brute it has its moments when i want to burn it but i just fix it ..lol.. hopefully she will not break anything .. to bad its goin to be piiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkk .... or i would ride the heck out of it to give my .02 .. never know there maybe 2 can am's and a brute in the stable.. since brute is paid off.. and her's is the xt model.. not really a big difference with the xt and the xt-p model some body panels and some other junk that wouldn't matter since the plastics got dipped


----------



## 03dsglightning

MonsterRenegade said:


> :agreed: The brute is definitly the best bike bang for your buck. The low end power on a brute is a kick in the butt and more than enough to go anywhere or do anything you want to do with them with the exception of out running a Can AM. N2O's brute really impressed me the last time we rode. His bike has alot more initial snap than mine does but he has pretty good money in mods too. still very impressive!


yes but his runs good. When he had his mods and i didn't have the cdi on my bike he pulled @ under 10 when we ran from over a 10mph hit we stayed together BUT i had engine mods and his 09 internals are stock.


----------



## N2Otorious

MonsterRenegade said:


> Come on John (N2O) your a drag racer just like me and you didnt even hint to the fact of proper combination of Torque and Horsepower results in the fastest acceleration. But DjScrimm did, what good is tons of torque if it doesnt get you into your optimal HP range before it drops off? Not to mention that (FUN) instant throttle response is also the MAIN factor in Broken parts.


I'm not drag racing here. and I didn't want this to turn into a clutching thread(there enough of those).

When playing in the mud, low end torque is king, or course clutch and gearing will factor how it can be utilized.



MonsterRenegade said:


> :agreed: The brute is definitly the best bike bang for your buck. The low end power on a brute is a kick in the butt and more than enough to go anywhere or do anything you want to do with them with the exception of out running a Can AM. N2O's brute really impressed me the last time we rode. His bike has alot more initial snap than mine does but he has pretty good money in mods too. still very impressive!


Thanks Jamie, That means alot coming from you. I do not have alot in mod parts thou. I have a muzzy pro exhaust, and clutch work.. That is it that day.. I have a MSD box also but it was at the house that day., I was running stock tune(part of the reason i over heated). The engine is bone stock. and my clutching was setup for 28" tires even thou i had 32"s that day.. Bike feels alot better now that I have taken some weight out of the clutch.


----------



## Polaris425

I've just got one thing to say. Who really gives a ****? Ya'll argue too much over stupid crap. They are both good machines if you mod them correctly, or even if you don't mod them at all. Both are still good machines. Yes one cost a LOT more than the other but... Whatever, too each his own. :34:


----------



## byrd

Lol get em polaris425 :haha:


----------



## N2Otorious

Polaris425 said:


> I've just got one thing to say. Who really gives a ****? Ya'll argue too much over stupid crap. They are both good machines if you mod them correctly, or even if you don't mod them at all. Both are still good machines. Yes one cost a LOT more than the other but... Whatever, too each his own. :34:


LOL

Are you upset because Polaris wasn't invited to the party?


PS. please don't ban me. I kid, I Kid...


I think this kind of banter is good, people are engaged in the topic.


----------



## 03dsglightning

Polaris425 said:


> I've just got one thing to say. Who really gives a ****? Ya'll argue too much over stupid crap. They are both good machines if you mod them correctly, or even if you don't mod them at all. Both are still good machines. Yes one cost a LOT more than the other but... Whatever, too each his own. :34:



It's what makes it fun.... I don't know one time me n20 or monstrene have been to the track that some friends aren't talkin some mess about how bad their stuff is !!!!


----------



## N2Otorious

03dsglightning said:


> It's what makes it fun.... I don't know one time me n20 or monstrene have been to the track that some friends aren't talkin some mess about how bad their stuff is !!!!


It will always be Ford(BruteForce) Vs. Chevy(Can Am) and nobody cares about Dodge(Polaris).

Just saying, when gearheads get together trash talk will always happen.


----------



## 03dsglightning

Haha dodge = Polaris ... Polaris hemi lol


----------



## Polaris425

HL is for trash talk..............


----------



## monsterbrute750

No HL is for childish pr!#$ who wanna fight and think they know everything....LOL !!
MIMB are a bunch of guys who say what they feel and can be open without getting offended by an honest comment. Or atleast that's what I thought ?? :thinking:


----------



## N2Otorious

monsterbrute750 said:


> No HL is for childish pr!#$ who wanna fight and think they know everything....LOL !!
> MIMB are a bunch of guys who say what they feel and can be open without getting offended by an honest comment. Or atleast that's what I thought ?? :thinking:


I agree.... I do not visit HL forums.


----------



## Polaris425

Im just in a bad mood.


----------



## monsterbrute750

Cheer up P !!!
It's Friday !!! Beautiful weather for riding.....:bigok:


----------



## N2Otorious

Polaris425 said:


> Im just in a bad mood.


Well, go out and ride.. it is beautiful weather for it here...


----------



## 03dsglightning

Yah go out and ride ur dodge  jk Polaris ... Don't ban me either id have to think of a new sn


----------



## kawboy1

N2Otorious said:


> LOL
> 
> Are you upset because Polaris wasn't invited to the party?
> 
> 
> PS. please don't ban me. I kid, I Kid...
> 
> 
> I think this kind of banter is good, people are engaged in the topic.


:haha: Thats exactly why I started this thread......to get as many people engaged in the topic AND try to get to the bottom of WHY there is such a big diff in the advertised power numbers of each machine.....not to bash one brand over the other.

To me 20 hp and 10 ft.lbs is a lot of difference......but I'm finding it hard to believe based on the bikes I have ridden. The Ham should leave the brute for dead but it doesn't.

For example my m8 and I both have 650 sra's and when I fitted just my slip-on and we raced I had him by about a quad length....this was consistant over a few runs, then we swapped bikes and did the runs again...he was on my bike and he had me consistantly by a length and a bit (he is lighter) and this is just with a slip-on which is worth what...a couple of hp? NOT 20 hp and 10 ft.lbs!

Just saying. :thinking:


----------



## rowdy-outty

03dsglightning said:


> It's what makes it fun.... I don't know one time me n20 or monstrene have been to the track that some friends aren't talkin some mess about how bad their stuff is !!!!


Yep :rockn:, This is part of what makes what we do so much fun! I like to call it BREED WARS, I have friends that drive ford, dodge and (the smart ones) chevy and let me tell ya, if you wanna hear some smack talkin just go to track with us one time! Same with the 4 wheelers, we all ride something different and talk smack about our friends bikes. Even if they got the same one! Fact is if we all had the exact same bike or car with the same mods it would SUCK!


----------



## rowdy-outty

I also meant to say :mimbrules:
We all pick on each other alittle bit but I havent seen one thread yet were members were bashing another member, thats why im here! Its nice to have a site that if you ask for help you will have 20 members in a short time offering advice, giving phone numbers to call, offering to actually drive over and help when you have never even met! HL and alot of other sites bash people and treat them like **** because they need help on something. This is a site is full of good people and new friends! Thats my .02 cents


----------



## 03dsglightning

MIMB rules.....oh and down with chevy  haha


----------



## swampthing

Polaris425 said:


> Im just in a bad mood.


 SOMEBODY GET THAT MAN A LAP DANCE!! :aargh4: I just laugh at all the retarded bickering, as I've been one to throw in mine also, as long as it's left as lippin off it's pretty humorous......Brute is like a Ford; TOO true, I'd go for a hemi before a Ford...CAN AM & CHEV FTW!


----------



## byrd

hey wait a minute i drive a chevy and i have a brute. i wouldnt ever own another ford but i guess u r kinda right my brute is Found Off Road Dead alot lol


----------



## 03dsglightning

Oh it's on now !!! Lol na Polaris will just close the thread


----------



## 03dsglightning

swampthing said:


> SOMEBODY GET THAT MAN A LAP DANCE!! :aargh4: I just laugh at all the retarded bickering, as I've been one to throw in mine also, as long as it's left as lippin off it's pretty humorous......Brute is like a Ford; TOO true, I'd go for a hemi before a Ford...CAN AM & CHEV FTW!



Blahhh ill run your " hemi" headed dodge in my ford ... WiTh my brute in the back ..... Lol raise or call ?


----------



## rowdy-outty

Carefull on this one guys, that ole lightnin can put em down! wait a minute, with the brute even fit in the lightning? lol


----------



## rowdy-outty

Will! meant to say will it fit


----------



## walker

he is goin to have to winch it up in the bed ...


----------



## 03dsglightning

It will if I take the spacers out lol


----------



## 03dsglightning

walker said:


> he is goin to have to winch it up in the bed ...


Lol ur on a roll today ...


----------



## swampthing

03dsglightning said:


> Blahhh ill run your " hemi" headed dodge in my ford ... With my brute in the back ..... Lol raise or call ?


Call! I don't own a hemi, but I'd take one over a Ford is my point,( Chevy guy ) your truck is no doubt peppy and the Raptor SVT is the hottest pickup on the planet however, they don't have the reputation or recognition of a Hemi ( chicks know "Hemi" ) and I'd take a new Challenger with a hemi over any other ride. (Ford) props for the 9" rear end...done. just my 2 cents. Back to point; anyone able to set up some sort of head to head yet? (between the Brute and the Outty) I'm anxiously awaiting this test.


----------



## DrillersGoDeeper

Im a can am & a dodge guy...lol 

hemi ftw!


----------



## 03dsglightning

Well I make 589/625 @ tha wheel on stock long block. Do that with a hemi. = boom.


I do love the look of the new challenger but haven't saw a quick one yet.


----------



## byrd

thats 589 on a supercharged 390. that motor was built internally for that kind of power. the hemi is a naturally aspirated motor so it has weaker parts but im sure it can hold major power and if it cant dogde built the RT10 motor as the answer to the lighting


----------



## 03dsglightning

... And it failed lol  I have a few vids of me blown away a commerative srt10 truck w [email protected] wheel, and I was only on drag radials ..

Ps sorry for gettn off topic


----------



## kawboy1

Back to point; anyone able to set up some sort of head to head yet? (between the Brute and the Outty) I'm anxiously awaiting this test. 

^^ me too.


----------



## WOLVERINE

Even between Brutes there is a difference. My second Brute stock can take my 1st Brute modded. It just feels stronger and faster and get this. It's better on fuel too! Besides, Toyota kicks *** over F/C/D anyways!


----------



## gpinjason

Kia FTW!!! :nutkick:


----------



## swampthing

gpinjason said:


> Kia FTW!!! :nutkick:


 LMAO!!!! Done!!


----------



## rowdy-outty

KIA :thinking: Oh i get it, you ride a honda!


----------



## 03dsglightning

MonsterRenegade said:


> KIA :thinking: Oh i get it, you ride a honda!



bahhhhhaha.....any one would make that connection. kia= no power , honda = no power


----------



## Polaris425

swampthing said:


> Call! I don't own a hemi, but I'd take one over a Ford is my point.


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I dunno. I've had both...... Currently in an 07 1500 QC Hemi and honestly.............................












Don't tell anyone














I'd like my F150 back  I probably wouldnt be spending NEAR as much in gas. However, I wouldnt be having NEAR as much fun leaving smart *** college frat boys at the redlight in there fancy little cars. :rockn: So 6 one 1/2 dozen the other right....


----------



## swampthing

:haha: LOL! Honestly have owned neither (chevy:rockn so I base my opinion on ignorance and loyalty to GMC. I still say "HEMI" = HOTTIES and frat punks shouldn't be racin in mommy's car anyway. (know yer role kids) hee hee


----------



## Polaris425

swampthing said:


> :haha: LOL!. I still say "HEMI" = HOTTIES and frat punks shouldn't be racin in mommy's car anyway. (know yer role kids) hee hee


:bigok: :bigok:

I do get looks when cruising down Sorority Row.... :saevilw:


----------



## walker

Polaris425 said:


> :bigok: :bigok:
> 
> I do get looks when cruising down Sorority Row.... :saevilw:


are you sure that they are those kinda looks and not the other kinda looks


----------



## monsterbrute750

walker said:


> are you sure that they are those kinda looks and not the other kinda looks


They can easily be mistaken one for another....
And just my 2 cents....Although Hemis are nice, they are very overated..
Titan 5.6 FTW !!!!


----------



## 03dsglightning

Yep ... Some guy at the track with a single cab hemionce asked n20 to race his f150 ( f150 was an enterprise quad cab 4.6) he of
Couse told te eager hemi owner it was a rental. Soooo they raced about 7 or 8 times .... Hemi = 0 rental 4.6 quad cab 150 = 8 . it was sad. Those hemi trucks just don't make power. 345 ummm no. I used to smoke em down back in the day I had my bone stock 94 lightning with 160k mile on it. They only made 240 @ crank. But I out ran modded hemi trucks easily ??? 345 doubtful.


----------



## monsterbrute750

Hemi - 345hp
04 Titan 5.6 -305hp
Of course I have a few bolt on goodies, but haven't been beat by a Hemi yet. Including a Daytona Hemi. And I am on BFG A/T's. Imagine street tires ???


----------



## 03dsglightning

The titans arnt fast for a Peformance truck. But no contest I'd bet my dollar on the Titan before a hemi @ tha track.


----------



## 03dsglightning

Sooooo .... Who's got a stock brute ? Who's got a stock can am ?


----------



## monsterbrute750

I think the vids posted earlier say it all. Yes the Can-Am is faster, but not by much. Especially for the price you pay. It all boils down to preference. Do you just have to have the Escalade ? Or will a Tahoe do it for you ? LOL !!


----------



## 03dsglightning

I'll take the tahoe with a wood grain kit and some eBay cady wheels and have the escalade lol


----------



## byrd

u cant go by that video. ur going by some guys word of what he has done to his motor in either bike plus the operator has alot to do with it cuz some people jus dont run them like others


----------



## byrd

oh and new chevys are 405hp :rockn:


----------



## Coolwizard

WOLVERINE said:


> Even between Brutes there is a difference. My second Brute stock can take my 1st Brute modded. It just feels stronger and faster and get this. It's better on fuel too!


I agree, my '08 Brute feels faster than my '10 Brute. I've never raced them against each other because I know the '08 will win.


----------



## rowdy-outty

Well I run a HO 5.9 Cummins (modded) and I will race any of your gas trucks! As long as we both got loaded down trailers behind us :rockn:

03dsglightning I got a little old VW Bug thats wants a piece of the lightning! Raise/call/ or fold!


----------



## badazzbrute

No one has mentioned Nissan yet....My Titan pulls my brute around... Nissan ftw... LOL...


----------



## swampthing

OK Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Nissan and KIA all have their followers and this debate could go on forever......even though everyone of us KNOWS "hemi"= hotties! I wanna see a stock Brute 750 against a 650 Can am, solely cuz the 650 has 10 more horse.


----------



## RedBeard

Back on subject, lets get some of these machines together, for a 'real-world' run. It would be great to see a bunch of the big bores (including the poo 850) run side by side. A couple of thoughts, 1) although the brute has less ponies, how much lighter is it than the C-A? I believe it is roughly 100 lbs lighter than the old poo 7&800, that is huge on machines that weigh no more than 900lbs. 2) a friend (and diesel mechanic) once told me that hp makes the noise, torque does the work! I've always liked that one!


----------



## byrd

nissian aint worth a flip for hauling. wait how did we get on trucks again lol


----------



## RedBeard

byrd said:


> nissian aint worth a flip for hauling. wait how did we get on trucks again lol


Easy, isn't it!! :haha:LOL!! I'm not going to start, although I've got Dodge trucks, and Chev cars. If you can't Dodge 'em, RAM them!!


----------



## kawboy1

I think the Gade is about the same weight as the Brute?


----------



## WOLVERINE

Coolwizard said:


> I agree, my '08 Brute feels faster than my '10 Brute. I've never raced them against each other because I know the '08 will win.


I haven't tried them side by side, just back to back, but you can feel the seat of the pants difference in how it wants to pull harder at slow speed when you punch it or even from a stop. Wheelies are easier too...:rockn:


----------



## byrd

brute 750= 652.7lbs renegade=614lbs outty 800= 669lbs outty 650= 669lbs


----------



## badazzbrute

byrd said:


> nissian aint worth a flip for hauling. wait how did we get on trucks again lol


I love my Titan, won't have another american made half ton truck after owning this thing.. They severely under rated the towing capacity of this thing.. I know first hand... They say the capacity is 7100 lbs for my version, but my camper weighs 7200 lbs dry, and it doesn't even phase this thing.. 
Now, I am kinda wanting a 3/4 ton 4x4 for my next truck, Nissan doesn't make one. For a diesel, I will go Dodge or Chevy...


----------



## RedBeard

byrd said:


> brute 750= 652.7lbs renegade=614lbs outty 800= 669lbs outty 650= 669lbs


Thanks for the info, obviously if these numbers are right, they are close. In the event someone is able to get a few machines together, it would be cool to weigh them full of fuel, ready to run, just to compare. I don't know about wheelers, but snowmobiles are often a long way (heavier) from what their 'advertised weight' says they are.


----------



## byrd

My stepdad has a titan and i have a chevy and ive pulled my boat with both which 21' and my chevy pulls smoother and stronger


----------



## monsterbrute750

byrd said:


> My stepdad has a titan and i have a chevy and ive pulled my boat with both which 21' and my chevy pulls smoother and stronger


Is that Titan equipped with the big tow package you're talking about ?
Mine is, and your statements do not hold water compared to my Titan experience. I pull a 23 FT Toy Hauler with a Rhino and all my camping gear in it, with the Brute in the bed @ 75 MPH no problem ??? :thinking:


----------



## 03dsglightning

So who has a stock 2010 going to mud stock


----------



## badazzbrute

monsterbrute750 said:


> Is that Titan equipped with the big tow package you're talking about ?
> Mine is, and your statements do not hold water compared to my Titan experience. I pull a 23 FT Toy Hauler with a Rhino and all my camping gear in it, with the Brute in the bed @ 75 MPH no problem ??? :thinking:


Mine doesn't have the big tow, and I pull my 31' 7100lb dry camper just fine... It actually does a lot better than I thought it would... Like I previously stated, I love my truck... My dad was a big chevy fan, he had 4 of them for work trucks, (1) 3/4 ton, (1) 1 ton dually gas burner, and (2) Z71's and had to replace transmissions in every truck. Come to find out, they weren't no good for backing up a load, especially up hill... Every time he lost a tranny, he lost reverse... Don't get me wrong, for many years, I wouldn't have anything but a chevy, then I bought my Titan...LOL....I saw the light....


----------



## 03maxpower

WHO CARES ABOUT TRUCKS!!!!! start your own thread for that


----------



## N2Otorious

03maxpower said:


> WHO CARES ABOUT TRUCKS!!!!! start your own thread for that


:haha:


----------



## 03maxpower

going to race the renegade tomorrow if he is there i will let you guys know how it turns out


----------



## swampthing

Kick his......! I don't like Renegades very much, awesome machines, but quite common around here and I'll always have a soft spot for the Brute.


----------



## rowdy-outty

03maxpower said:


> going to race the renegade tomorrow if he is there i will let you guys know how it turns out


 LOL, good luck with that!


----------



## kawboy1

Well heres the best I could come up with.....Gade 800 x vs 650 Brute sra. The little Brute gets the jump on the gade outa the hole but then the gade starts walkin away but not by a huge margin.....gade is stock and brute has Dynatek and HMF slip-on.


----------



## rowdy-outty

Brute always gets the jump on a can am, they are a monster out of the hole!


----------



## swampthing

:agreed::agreed:!!!!


----------



## monsterbrute750

03maxpower said:


> WHO CARES ABOUT TRUCKS!!!!! start your own thread for that


Actually Polaris425 brought up the trucks in this thread so..:bigok:
And this thread isn't going anywhere anyhow. It never will. The vids showed the results..thread answered.


----------



## 03maxpower

i know monster and he is always the one saying use the search there is a thread for that and on and on


----------



## 03maxpower

anyway he got me i had him to about half track then he came around me and got me by a little over a bike you see my mods only thing i had heavy 26x12 and 26x10 mudlites on and he said he was 100% stock but i find that hard to believe but regardless i lost. and the reason i find it hard to believe is that i rode with a stock outty when my brute was stock and i was right with him every time and mine is totally different with my mods and about half track this guy passed me hard then just hung about a bike ahead of me so i dont know


----------



## 03maxpower

does anyone know the difference between a stock outty and a renny??


----------



## swampthing

weight, I believe Rene (614 lbs.) and Outty (669 lbs.) Those are 800r models. Brute (652 lbs.)


----------



## kawboy1

03maxpower said:


> anyway he got me i had him to about half track then he came around me and got me by a little over a bike you see my mods only thing i had heavy 26x12 and 26x10 mudlites on and he said he was 100% stock but i find that hard to believe but regardless i lost. and the reason i find it hard to believe is that i rode with a stock outty when my brute was stock and i was right with him every time and mine is totally different with my mods and about half track this guy passed me hard then just hung about a bike ahead of me so i dont know


Bad luck man.....good on ya for giving it a shot :rockn:


----------



## Polaris425

monsterbrute750 said:


> Actually Polaris425 brought up the trucks in this thread so..:bigok:
> And this thread isn't going anywhere anyhow. It never will. The vids showed the results..thread answered.


I didnt bring it up, just followed through :bigok:


----------



## 03maxpower

thanks swanpthing thats quite a weight difference and kawboy1 yeah ill be back next year but he said he was retiring i tried to talk him into racing one more year but i dont think he is going to


----------



## rowdy-outty

03maxpower said:


> anyway he got me i had him to about half track then he came around me and got me by a little over a bike you see my mods only thing i had heavy 26x12 and 26x10 mudlites on and he said he was 100% stock but i find that hard to believe but regardless i lost. and the reason i find it hard to believe is that i rode with a stock outty when my brute was stock and i was right with him every time and mine is totally different with my mods and about half track this guy passed me hard then just hung about a bike ahead of me so i dont know


Sounds like maybe He had some clutch work done. Generally the brute pulls harder for 30 to 50ft then the 800 starts making its power and catches up and passes. Once it passes they just keep pullin further and further away.


----------



## kawboy1

^:agreed::agreed:


----------



## kawboy1

Heres some interesting info that vforcejohn posted over at kawieriders......might help you Can Am owners when it comes time to tune or buy aftermarket goodies.

"
I have dynocharts for the renegades and that explains how their power curve hits. 

I've been tuning alot of them lately.

we peak power out at 25-30 mph. they are making power at 45-50 mph peak.

the 2010 renegade makes 51 rwhp stock. add a muzzy pc5 and twinair and it makes 51.5 rwhp PEAK. no more low end. but at 55-77 mph it holds the power flat vs falling off so up top at 70 mph it gains about 7 rwhp over a stock setup.

so even modded they still run the same 0-50

Even an 840 kitted renegade with $3000 in billet clutches only musters up 64 rwhp tuned and clutched to max power.

if I get some time I'll post some comparison charts up in my forum section can am vs the kawy's and you'll see where and what speeds our machines make more power over their's."

John 

I will keep an eye out for if and when he posts up the dyno charts and post back here with a link to them. Also heres the link from the above info if you would like to read the whole thread.


http://www.kawieriders.com/forum/me...845-renegade-800x-vs-brute-650-drag-race.html


----------



## rowdy-outty

Sounds pretty accurate to me, I would like to see the dyno sheets because he didnt say what the brute's do in comparison.


----------



## N2Otorious

MonsterRenegade said:


> Sounds pretty accurate to me, I would like to see the dyno sheets because he didnt say what the brute's do in comparison.


There are 796s and 820s that are over 100hp. in brutes.


----------



## king05

swampthing said:


> weight, I believe Rene (614 lbs.) and Outty (669 lbs.) Those are 800r models. Brute (652 lbs.)


If i'm not mistaken, those weights you give for the can am's are still dry weights and the one you gave for the brute is curb weight. If i'm wrong the rene has lost a lot of weight over the years.


----------



## rowdy-outty

N2Otorious said:


> There are 796s and 820s that are over 100hp. in brutes.


 Man i would love to ride a 100hp brute! WoooHooo :bigok:


----------



## N2Otorious

MonsterRenegade said:


> Man i would love to ride a 100hp brute! WoooHooo :bigok:


That's pretty easy to do with a brute...

Standard bore 750 with a 11.5:1 makes 90-100hp, according to Fundy.


----------



## blue beast

king05 said:


> If i'm not mistaken, those weights you give for the can am's are still dry weights and the one you gave for the brute is curb weight. If i'm wrong the rene has lost a lot of weight over the years.


i think that is curb weight for the brute...the book says 605.3lbs dry weight


----------



## rowdy-outty

N2Otorious said:


> That's pretty easy to do with a brute...
> 
> Standard bore 750 with a 11.5:1 makes 90-100hp, according to Fundy.


 I think I would call B.S on that, a MrRPM 975cc rotax only make's 96hp. If this was true there wouldnt be 40 forums full of brute racers complaining they cant compete with the Canned Hams. They must be dyno'ing with a 50hp shot of nitrous with just 11.5 750cc


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## N2Otorious

MonsterRenegade said:


> I think I would call B.S on that, a MrRPM 975cc rotax only make's 96hp. If this was true there wouldnt be 40 forums full of brute racers complaining they cant compete with the Canned Hams. They must be dyno'ing with a 50hp shot of nitrous with just 11.5 750cc


I believe Fundy. They are a respected company.

You are referring stock vs. stock...

When modded, the tables turn in favor of the brute.

and we are talking HP, which i don't care about, I want torque, Torque is going to spin the meats at low RPMs in the thick stuff...


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## rowdy-outty

N2Otorious said:


> I believe Fundy. They are a respected company.
> 
> You are referring stock vs. stock...
> 
> When modded, the tables turn in favor of the brute.
> 
> and we are talking HP, which i don't care about, I want torque, Torque is going to spin the meats at low RPMs in the thick stuff...


 What his web site bud? If this is true I want one! :bigok:


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## N2Otorious

MonsterRenegade said:


> What his web site bud? If this is true I want one! :bigok:



_not allowed - Admin_


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## rowdy-outty

N2Otorious said:


> _not allowed - Admin_


Sweet, thanks John


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## N2Otorious

MonsterRenegade said:


> Sweet, thanks John


I know Mark and Twisted Custom ATVs builds brute engines too, He has a nasty 916 Brute he had out at DustStock 2010...

Might need to call and talk to him as well, He is a site sponsor, and has proven to be a real asset to this forum.


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## Brute650i

Fundy numbers are at the crank instead of rwhp. 

My 801 with stock head and clutches made 67 rwhp on motor and 93 on spray

Just for comparison


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## N2Otorious

Brute650i said:


> Fundy numbers are at the crank instead of rwhp.
> 
> My 801 with stock head and clutches made 67 rwhp on motor and 93 on spray
> 
> Just for comparison


Well that is the most accurate place to rate HP and TQ.

Bikes having different wheels / tires, clutching, Gear Reduction etc. will all yield different numbers at the wheels with the same engine transferred between them.

The stock Brute is more the capable of breaking axles and diffs... sooo..


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## byrd

i read somewhere on another forum where a few guys where bashing fundy and the owner of fundy was in the middle of the conversation saying on his dyno he was reading the numbers he posted but there was 10 to 15 other ppl that had the kit put on the dyno and was only seeing in the 60s. 100hp brute is jus something id have to see and ride first hand to believe it


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## Brute650i

I posted them just for a comparison. The crank is the best place for accurate MOTOR numbers but it is misleading on actual bike numbers because certain clutch systems loose a larger percent of power through the drive train. 

My point is that comparing straight motor numbers are kinda pointless whether it be at wheels or crank. It should be done on same track at same time to be 100%. 

The main reason for the can am having more STOCK hp is the compression ratio and a decent cam it cams with. Take a 750 brute up compression to 10:1 with web 150i cam and its a different ball game. That is the brutes major downfall. And that is a small cam off the shelf not a builder cam.


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## N2Otorious

Brute650i said:


> I posted them just for a comparison. The crank is the best place for accurate MOTOR numbers but it is misleading on actual bike numbers because certain clutch systems loose a larger percent of power through the drive train.
> 
> My point is that comparing straight motor numbers are kinda pointless whether it be at wheels or crank. It should be done on same track at same time to be 100%.
> 
> The main reason for the can am having more STOCK hp is the compression ratio and a decent cam it cams with. Take a 750 brute up compression to 10:1 with web 150i cam and its a different ball game. That is the brutes major downfall. And that is a small cam off the shelf not a builder cam.


Yes I completely agree... Big difference is the Brute can carry Hail bails, Weed sprayer, etc... It is a Utility Bike. The Renegade isn't...

So i understand why the went with lower compression and less cam, Not everyone is looking for speed and power.

I would liked to have seen the 650 where the 750 is, and the 750 with a better cam and higher compression on the 750s... Everyone wins.


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## walker

i would like to see polaris in a better mood some times too ..


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## N2Otorious

walker said:


> i would like to see polaris in a better mood some times too ..


:haha:


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## 03dsglightning

walker said:


> i would like to see polaris in a better mood some times too ..


lol nice....you should prolly check his oil. since you enjoy doing that so much bahhha ha ha


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## walker

03dsglightning said:


> lol nice....you should prolly check his oil. since you enjoy doing that so much bahhha ha ha


young timmmy do you have dip stick envy ???????


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## 03dsglightning

no i have being ran over by young drunk walker envy lol


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## walker

i can't help my brute thought that lil recon was cute ........


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## 03dsglightning

N2Otorious said:


> Yes I completely agree... Big difference is the Brute can carry Hail bails, Weed sprayer, etc... It is a Utility Bike. The Renegade isn't...
> 
> So i understand why the went with lower compression and less cam, Not everyone is looking for speed and power.
> 
> I would liked to have seen the 650 where the 750 is, and the 750 with a better cam and higher compression on the 750s... Everyone wins.


I pulled our ski boat around the block with the silver 07 750 lol......dont try to stop tho :-0 wow


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## kawboy1

You guy's might be interested in this.....Micky Dunlap's "Trail Rider" 89 whp all motor! On vforcejohns dyno.


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## kawboy1

Heres a 171 hp 1000cc Brute!


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