# Clutch Cleaning Question



## w8tnonu22 (Feb 3, 2009)

My sheeves are a little glazed. I read the instructions on here about using fine sand papers to get rid of the glaze. The instructions didn't mention (OR I OVERLOOKED IT), but I have also read that some only sand in a straight line from inside to the outside. Is their a certain way to sand them?


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

It doesn't really matter.. I do it in a circular motion.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

STOGI said:


> It doesn't really matter.. I do it in a circular motion.


Right but, what about cleaning the clutches? :bigok: :bigok: :rockn: :rockn:
:haha:


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## langford2000 (Mar 5, 2009)

I read somewhere else that using scotchbrite the cleaning with solvent does wonders. The scotchbrite won't remove as much metal as sandpaper.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

I used some really light steel wool.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Yep steal wool and brake cleaner will shine it up nicely.


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## mrkd1 (Feb 27, 2009)

Hey I know this is for a outlander but thought it might help..


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

sweet thanks for posting that


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## cigaro (Dec 18, 2008)

Polaris425 said:


> Right but, what about cleaning the clutches? :bigok: :bigok: :rockn: :rockn:
> :haha:


hahahahahaha


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## Rúnar (Mar 13, 2009)

nice


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## bump530 (Jan 5, 2009)

yeah ive got to clean my clutches. they are soaked in oil from an BAD oil leak. still not too sure how im gonna go about it, but this helps


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## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

Normal engine degreaser would work fine too and not hurt the clutches.


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## w8tnonu22 (Feb 3, 2009)

I use brake cleaner on everything. That's stuff melts grease. I know you also said your belt was soaked in oil too. I would just get another belt. The belt is so porous that it probably would start seeping out when it heated up. Then you would have to start all over cleaning again.


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Can you oversand your sheeves?


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## w8tnonu22 (Feb 3, 2009)

I'm sure you could if you used coarse sand paper. I would imagine it would be too rough and eat at your belt.


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

I used 100 grit on friday to get some burnt rubber off and then went over it with 220, put a new belt on rode around yard some this weekend and then hit the trails today and didnt make it far before the new belt failed. Dont know how bad yet, gonna tear it back down tomorrow and C. 
I was hopping some willies friday and it locked up in mid air, I mean locked the back end up, in any gear it wouldnt move, limp mode never engaged, I pushed it back and forth and finally the rear wheels broke free. when I got the CVT cover off the belt had broke apart in 3 places and the belt seemed to have turned upside down in one area or twisted maybe you would say??
I know I said all this backwards but its what led up to me useing the 100 grit paper on friday.
Ive had belt issues with this thing since day one and bout at wits end, if I dont figure it out soon..........the match will spark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## w8tnonu22 (Feb 3, 2009)

I don't see how the belt would cause the rear end to lock up, maybe jamming the secondary where it won't turn. I just wonder if you have other issues. It should not be eating belts up like that. I've got 100 hours on my belt and it is in good condition. Is it too tight or too loose?


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

And yes the back was locked up due to the belt jamming the secondary or so it seemed when I popped the CVT. 
Im thinking it may be in the shims and have been trying to read up on it as much as possible. I think tomorrow or Tuesday I will be tearing it down and try taking out one shim. If its not then im stumped and at this point frustrated with the BF.
If I had to guess from remembering what it looked like last time I would say possibly to loose. Ive got a stock belt that has been used but never sent into limp mode, would it be good enough to slap on for measurements?


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

Kurly said:


> I used 100 grit on friday to get some burnt rubber off and then went over it with 220, put a new belt on rode around yard some this weekend and then hit the trails today and didnt make it far before the new belt failed. Dont know how bad yet, gonna tear it back down tomorrow and C.
> I was hopping some willies friday and it locked up in mid air, I mean locked the back end up, in any gear it wouldnt move, limp mode never engaged, I pushed it back and forth and finally the rear wheels broke free. when I got the CVT cover off the belt had broke apart in 3 places and the belt seemed to have turned upside down in one area or twisted maybe you would say??
> I know I said all this backwards but its what led up to me useing the 100 grit paper on friday.
> Ive had belt issues with this thing since day one and bout at wits end, if I dont figure it out soon..........the match will spark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
My question is what kind of belts are you useing? OEM or Aftermarket? If you are useing OEM then you have other problems, maybe the shaft of the primary or the spiders are bent, it doesn't take much. About the only way you will be able to tell is pull the CVT cover and spin the motor with the starter and watch it. Sounds like to me that is what is happening. Have you moded the clutch any? Just trying to come up with suggestions that might solve your belt problems. hope this helps, keep us posted on how things are going.


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Well I have had 2 OEMS, 2 carlisle and 1 dayco fail all together. Only mod is a red spring for secondary.
The belt on friday was the dayco and I put it on when I did the red spring 2-3 weeks ago and have maybe 5-7 rides on it 3-4 of them being pretty hard rides IMO. the belt I replaced the dayco friday with a brand new carlise I had for an extra on hand just in case and it went out today. Dont know how bad yet as I havent pulled the CVT. 
In the past I have limped it back to truck and sometimes seen the belt destroyed. Today I had a friend pull me back. Once I heard it and seen the light I never tried it at all but rather turned it off and got towed.
Im wondering at this point should I just take it to the Kawi shop and turn it in and say fix it hopefully under warranty or try to trace it down myself. I have plenty of time on my hands but other then this site no tech experience at all other then trial and error which sometimes gets me into trouble.....LOL


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## w8tnonu22 (Feb 3, 2009)

You shouldn't have the problems your having. I've drug 2 rhino's with passengers through deep water for about 100 yards each time with mine and no problems. I think your having another issue. As long as the deflection is right.


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

SO maybe I should just take it in and let Kawa fix it or at least look at it? Or keep wrenching here until It works out or I torch it, which ever is first......:flames:


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

Kurly said:


> Well I have had 2 OEMS, 2 carlisle and 1 dayco fail all together. Only mod is a red spring for secondary.
> The belt on friday was the dayco and I put it on when I did the red spring 2-3 weeks ago and have maybe 5-7 rides on it 3-4 of them being pretty hard rides IMO. the belt I replaced the dayco friday with a brand new carlise I had for an extra on hand just in case and it went out today. Dont know how bad yet as I havent pulled the CVT.
> In the past I have limped it back to truck and sometimes seen the belt destroyed. Today I had a friend pull me back. Once I heard it and seen the light I never tried it at all but rather turned it off and got towed.
> Im wondering at this point should I just take it to the Kawi shop and turn it in and say fix it hopefully under warranty or try to trace it down myself. I have plenty of time on my hands but other then this site no tech experience at all other then trial and error which sometimes gets me into trouble.....LOL


Well, if your bike is still under warenty then I would take it bake to the stealership and let them fix it. I don't know how your dealer is, but if it was me, before I took it back to the stealership, put the factory tire and wheels back on if you still have them. A problem like you are having, I wouldn't put it past the stealership to say that warenty will not cover the repairs because of the aftermarket tires and wheels. Just my thoughts, I have herd of this happening several times. Good Luck, and let us know what happens.


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes I still have the originals and plan on doing that. Should they say anything about the red spring?


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## w8tnonu22 (Feb 3, 2009)

They may. I would change it to be safe if you don't have a close working relationship with the service department. I know the warranty doesn't typically cover belts, but man that's a lot of belts you have been through.


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

w8tnonu22 said:


> They may. I would change it to be safe if you don't have a close working relationship with the service department. I know the warranty doesn't typically cover belts, but man that's a lot of belts you have been through.


:agreed::agreed::agreed:


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Well thats just it, and its whats causing them to break I want corrected. 

THANKS fellas, im turning in for the night and gonna dream of............GETTING A HONDA!!!!!!!!!!!!

JK...:haha:....Have a good one and Thanks


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

no problem, nite......and I don't blame you about wanting it fixed, I would. And forget about that Honda, they are worse.....lol.

BTW, stay with OEM belts, they are lot better.


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Well I pulled the CVT cover today and the brand new belt (Carlisle) was torn to pieces!
I removed the secondary and seperated the sheeves. In talking with Tonka I removed the smaller shim and put back together and reinstalled, after checking the deflection it still seemed to loose (dont remember the measurement) so I took it back apart and removed the thicker and reinstalled the thinner, put it together and reinstalled the secondary with the only belt I had still in tact and it was a slightly used OEM belt. Gave it hang while in High standing it up and stopping and repeated for about a half an hour with good performance. Im gonna take it out for a few hours tomorrow and ride it like I stole it to test it out.....after I head to the Kawa shop to purchase/order 2 new OEM belts..........so hopefully this will have helped me out on the belt situation...:thinking:


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## lilbigtonka (Dec 30, 2008)

kurly i sure hope this fixes your problem but def only get the oem belts from now on those dayco's and carisle you were getting are not worth it.... i just hope you got it fixed now cuz i would hate to have to miss rides because of a stupid and belt and for a honda i know my gf has one and can hit the trails anytime without any trouble but when mines running it is literally running away from every bike we ride with hahaha and well hondas dont have enough power to break themselves either as for brutes well they can spin tires off the rims heheh and that can lead to trouble but boy is it fun why it lasts....


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## websy (Mar 20, 2009)

I've actually had blue smoke blowing out of my cvt exhaust and the belt wasnt even close to being as bad as you are describing.


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Well thats my luck, Ive pondered that I may have just got the "Lemon" thats always out there. I mean it completely shreads it........actually Ill get a pic of the brand new carlisle belt I just took off today. I put it in Friday and tooled around a bit Saturday in the yard as friends and family were over for my daughters 1 year BDay so no serious stuff other then a willie or 2 and then made it about and hour and 38 minutes into the ride on Sunday before it shot its wad. No warning this time as in the smoke at all just a loud noise from the CVT and the light came on. Bad thing is it went into limp mode but the belt was to torn to move the secondary leaving it to be pulled back to the truck????? Go figure!!!!!

No doubt Tonka, when its running, it dominates all that I ride with, but d**m if they dont get the jabs in when itsa their turn to pull me back........LOL


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

It may be a long shot, but I would think that for it to come out like this then It would have tripped long before it did. Once it tripped the light and rev limitator, I didnt try it once I noticed the wheels were not turning and simply turned it off and got pulled back. This by far is not the worst I have seen them come out but for being brand new and the little rideing I told you about, it doesnt seem right.


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

" it dominates all that I ride with, but d**m if they dont get the jabs in when itsa their turn to pull me back"
Thats the only time they can get you....lol.

I would possibly check into getting my money back for the other belt, since it was but 3 days old...Just a thought.

The reason OEM belts are so much better, is because they are made with Kevlar, and we all know how strong Kevlar is.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

> after I head to the Kawa shop to purchase/order 2 new OEM belts


kurly, what's your dealer charge for oem belts? you can get them online for 55ish. make sure you dont get raped by the stealer


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Yea, I have it ready to ship back today. Carlisle probably doesnt like me, but they keep sending new ones. I just mailed one back to Dayco Saturday and then this one going out today to Carlisle. When I get them back Ill probably put them up somewhere for sale.

Where on online? If I remember right they were charging me around 70, so im gonna shop around this morning.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

are your sheaves aligned?
meaning one isnt pushed in father than the other.
You got both washers on the secondary? Both torqued to 69 ft/lbs?
Deflection proper? how does the belt ride in the secondary? level with top of sheaves? higher than sheaves?
Bike squeal a bit in gear while idling?

The exploding is from heat. Heat turns that pliable plastic hard and it explodes from multiple cracking all over it.

I have read somewhere the EPI severe duty belt is TOO STRONG. You might wanna give that bad boy a try out.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

<TABLE class=commontext id=TblParts style="BORDER-LEFT-COLOR: black; BORDER-BOTTOM-COLOR: black; WIDTH: 600px; BORDER-TOP-COLOR: black; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: black" borderColor=black cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 rules=rows align=center border=1><TBODY><TR class=even><TD>SKU: 59011-0003
BELT</TD><TD align=middle></TD><TD align=middle>$56.69</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>babbitshttp://www.babbittsonline.com


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

babbitts always got the cheap OEM goods!


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## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

They way that belt is worn in the last picture, I'd say it's an alignment problem. Only one side looks ripped off.


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Ill check Babbits out.....Thanks




phreebsd said:


> are your sheaves aligned?
> meaning one isnt pushed in father than the other.
> You got both washers on the secondary? Both torqued to 69 ft/lbs?
> Deflection proper? how does the belt ride in the secondary? level with top of sheaves? higher than sheaves?
> ...


 

You talking about the sheeves from the secolndary to the sheeves on the primary?
Both washers on the secondary yes, and both on the outdside if I remember correctly.
Ft/Lbs not exactly certain, but each time I have taken it apart myself I have tightened it by what the local Kawa Tech in town said to which was snug it up and give it a 1/4 turn??????
Deflection yesterday seemed good IMO, I will measure it tomorrow to get aan exact number, well as exact as I can.
The belts were riding just below the top of the sheeves, but yesterday I removed the thicker shim and the one yesterday sit flush or a hair above in spots. Keeping in mind the belt yesterday was a used OEM (only one I had). Tomorrow I plan on putting a new OEM on it.
As for the squealing, in the past not at all. Since I removed the shim when I rode today (gave it hang for a hour or so) when riding I couldnt hear if it was but when I would come to a stop on occasions I would notice a faint squeal for maybe 4-5 seconds and then nothing, but it wasnt every stop????
What would be making it heat up like that?

Anyone used the severe duty belt from EPI?


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

man you really need to get those torque'd on there correctly. exactly 69 ft/lbs each. if they're pushed too far or not enough in then you'll have all kinda rubbing problems


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## Kurly (Feb 25, 2009)

Ok......So I put the new OEM belt on this morning.
*Deflection is approximatley 7/8"
**The belt is sitting approximately a heavy 1/16" above the secondary and is consistent all the way around
***I got a torque wrench and torqued both the secondary and primary bolt to 69 LBS:bigok:
****cleaned the sheeves and blew out the whole case even tho it all seemed clean from where I was in there few days ago.
*****Both shafts look to be spinning str8 with no wobble at all and the belt seems to be in line with the primary
******The used belt I had put on Monday looked consistent on both sides and seemed to be in good shape overall

Im hoping that the shims were what needed to be adjusted. I took it out back and romped on it in high and it is running great. I do notice when I stop it has a short and faint squeal, if I put it in nuetral it goes away or If I goose the gas.

So will see. Calling for rain here for the next few days.....rain = good riding around here.
Thanks for all the advice and suggestions


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

that slight squeal that goes away in neutral is exactly what you want. your deflection is on that tight side @ 22mm. Very good.
i hope your problems are over!


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## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

I have that squeek too with my new belt. Glad to see it's ok.


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## w8tnonu22 (Feb 3, 2009)

I'm glad you torqued them this time. The 1/4 turn sure didn't seem like enough to me. At least you know it's right now. I hope it works out for you.


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