# New Brute 750 owner w/ ???



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

New to the forum. I recently purchased a used '05 Brute Force 750 4x4i. It only has 400 miles on it. The previous owner added 29.5" swamplites on ITP wheels, highlifter springs, highlifter outlaw clutch kit, and icm module. 

With the current clutch setup, it definitely has a higher stall as it pauses before taking up the slack and starting to move. It also seems to spin up too much and runs at a high rpm. I want to get it to hook up sooner and lock in at a lower rpm for economy and torque. I mostly ride trails and dirt roads at speeds under 40 mph. I occasionally do some climbing or go in some mud, but not often. Anybody have recommendations for what clutch kit to buy?

Also, it occasionally has a burst of smoke from the exhaust like it's burning oil. 99% of the time the exhaust is clear as a bell. Since it is only seldom, and after being under heavy load or acceleration, I suspect it may be the oil "puking" problem I have read about on here, although I haven't pulled any wheelies. Is the catch can mod the solution to the smoking problem?

Finally, I have a broken CV boot. I have some on order, but was wondering if there is a how-to for CV boot replacement with pics. I saw the one on here, but no pics...

:mimbrules:


----------



## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

well mate welcome to the forum!

do you still have the 29.5 swamplites or have you gone to a smaller tire?
to lower the stall, you will need to swap out the primary spring. you go can back to stock or possibly as high as maroon. that will get the stall down to what you are after.
it will cost you about 27 to the door for the spring and you will need a primary puller (35 from EPI)

the puff might just be a rich condition when you stab the throttle.

i missed my opportunity to document that procedure but it really is as easy as following thost steps. the boot can be done pretty quick.
rest assured, the next boot i get a slit in will be documented.


----------



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks for the help.

Yeah, the 29.5 swamplites are still on it. The real question I have is what all is in the clutch on it. Looks like the kit he said was in it comes with weights and springs and other stuff. I wonder if I just need to call EPI and talk to one of the tech guys about a complete kit to put it back where I want it.

I'm not too concerned about top end speed, just want lower rpm lockup for fuel economy, easy on the belt, and easy on the ears, LOL. It's got plenty of power and torque to turn over the big tires.

I don't think it's a rich condition, it's definitely burning oil. The other day I was riding up a hill with my wife on there with me around 30 mph. All of a sudden it lost power, then I looked back and was smokin up the neighborhood like the mosquito fogger, LOL. Definitely a slug of oil burning in there, but it lasted less than 10 seconds and was back to normal. It's really got me puzzled.

:06:


----------



## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

hill and smoke definitely sounds like crankcase vent puke

jus change out that primary spring and it will lower the stall. also if the weights are heavier than stock that will slow u down a bit as well.


----------



## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

Ok, according to the tire weight chart that is posted here on MIMB, the tire weights are about the same as the 29.5 Outlaws, so as far as spring, I would go with the Maroon Primary and Red Secondary with stock weights. You really don't need to waste your money on a clutch kit in my opinion since you can acheive the clutch set up that you want by just changing primary and secondary springs.

As far as with the smoking problem, I agree with the others on the crank case puke, and the catch can mod should solve that problem. Be careful riding up and down hills untill you get the catch can mod done, due to the fact of the front cylinder being starved of oil and spinning a rod bearing. Good Luck bro.


----------



## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Someone Call HL and ask them if weights come in there Outlaw Kit, that will answer that question.


----------



## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

*APPLICATIONS:
*Kawasaki 750 Brute Force (05-07)

THIS KIT HAS WEIGHTS AND A DIFFERENT SPRING ON THE PRIMARY CLUTCH. IT IS A FULL BLOWN SYSTEM THAT PERFORMS AT A HIGHER LEVEL THAN THE AVERAGE SYSTEM.


----------



## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

There ya go... So to run at optimal performance I would say go back w/ stock weights.


----------



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

OK. I think I found what appear to be the stock weights in the bag on the back, at least judging by the pics I saw on the EPI site, they appear to be some weights LOL. There's also a Red spring, not sure whose.

Anyway, I have the EPI maroon primary and red secondary on the way along with the puller tool and a super duty belt. I'll install those with the stock weights and see how it does.

I also ordered some CV boot kits and a band tool so I can take care of the busted one and have some spares.

Now, where would I get the catch can? Kawasaki dealer, or online source?

I'll have this baby in great shape soon thanks to you guys! Thanks for all the help!


:rockn:


----------



## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

dang, those belts are spensive. me want one


----------



## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Yeha catch cans can be found anywhere that sells OEM stuff... babbits online... dealers... etc...


----------



## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

somebody hook this guy up with the yamaha part number


----------



## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

re: catchcan -- PM bump530! I'd be willing to bet he still has a few left!

the maroon pri, red sec, and stock weights oughta give you what you are looking for.


----------



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

Waitin' (not so patiently) on the brown truck...:fingersx:

:drive:


----------



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

*OK. Changed springs, now the stall is worse...*

Aight. I changed the primary to EPI maroon and secondary to EPI red per suggestions here. The instructions on the site along with the tech. manual were great!

The idea was to remove the Highlifter Outlaw clutch kit and install the maroon primary and red secondary along with the stock weights for lower rpm engagement and fuel economy. Anyway, once I got it apart, I realized that there are 4 weights in the clutch. The box of "extra stuff" I received when I bought the BF only contains two of what I suspect are the stock weights. So, no go on the weights, but I went aheah and changed the springs and belt.

I disassembled everything, cleaned and de-glazed the sheaves, re-greased the pins, and changed the primary and secondary using the MIMB home-made spring compressor. I put it back together including the new EPI belt, checked the deflection, and everything was peachy.

When I test drove it, the stall is even worse than with the HL springs. It runs at a higher rpm all the time than with the HL springs as well. I suspect it's the weights, but wanted to confirm that suspicion. 

:thinking:

Since I only have 2 of what I suspect are the stock weights, I can't change them.

Does everyone agree that it is most likely the weights causing the higher stall and higher rpm operation?

Does anyone have some stock weights they'd be willing to part with? 

Once I get the weights swapped, I'll have a HL Outlaw kit I can let somebody have reasonable.

Bottom line is I want it to hook up at a lower rpm and stay there for less engine wear and better fuel economy. 

Suggestions???


----------



## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

the stall should not be that great. 
i would think also the heaver the weights the faster engament would be as well.

my thinking is that you are likely running a 2/2 setup on the weights. meaning to of one weight and 2 of the other. if u run 2 52 and 2 56, that is that same as running all 54's.


----------



## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

OK what color springs did you remove from the clutch? I would like to know.

Its also possible that only two of the 4 weights sent with the original kit were installed the first time.

Any time you add a red secondary your gonna be running high RPM's. That stiff of a spring is gonna hold the secondary closed for a longer period of time keeping you in a lower range.

If you not running a lot of mud with those Swamp lights you can get away with a lighter secondary spring. You may also want to look into getting your clutch modified by VForce John. His Stage 3 Spider Mod will also help lower your over all RPM range with better belt grip then the stock primary.


----------



## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

phreebsd said:


> the stall should not be that great.
> i would think also the heaver the weights the faster engament would be as well.
> 
> my thinking is that you are likely running a 2/2 setup on the weights. meaning to of one weight and 2 of the other. if u run 2 52 and 2 56, that is that same as running all 54's.


Thats right but the kit most likely come with lighter then stock weights. Stock weights weigh 58g apiece.


----------



## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

really? 58? dang i could have swore stock weights were 52.
i suck at remember some stuff.


----------



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

*Springs I removed*

I removed a pink primary and red secondary. I also have what appears to be a maroon secondary in the "box of stuff" the guy who I bought the BF from gave me.

I guess it's possible that only 2 weights came with the HL kit??? I may give them a call tomorrow to see what it includes.

I guess I could disassemble everything again and check the weights that are in it to see if they all look and weigh the same. I could use my reloading scale set to grams.....

Really, all I want is to keep my rpms down...just not sure how to get there.

The setup now really seems to hook up tight and runs out nicely, just at a higher rpm that I prefer.

I just got back from riding about 20 miles down dirt roads, speeds ranging from 10-35, mostly around 18-20. That's mostly what we do, not much crawling or mudding. So, I want economy and longevity...

Still searching for the ideal combination...

Thanks for all the help.

Hambone:rockn:


----------



## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

If you want to drop a few operating RPM do the washer mod


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Stall is the motor reving high RPM's before engaging....is that what you mean??? You should have little to NO stall with a Maroon and None with Pink Primary. Your RPM's will seem kinda high with a Red spring....but Stall is the engine Reving a high before engaging.

Here is what you said.....

""""When I test drove it, the stall is even worse than with the HL springs. It runs at a higher rpm all the time than with the HL springs as well. I suspect it's the weights, but wanted to confirm that suspicion. """""

Running at a Higher rpm all the time is not stall......its the Red spring making your motor sound like that. See what I mean? Hope this helps.


----------



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

*Stall*

OK. Let me be clear. I know what stall is, and it is worse. The engine revs even higher before the clutch engages now, and it engages harder when it does.

Also, once you're moving, the engine revs higher to gain speed.

I was hoping the stall would go away, and the engine wouldn't rev so much.


Do the Highlifter spring colors run the same as EPI? Or are they different? I'm gonna have to look into that and see if the maroon secondary I found in the box of extra stuff will lower rpm at speed. If so, I'll change it an give it a try. 

But the main thing I want to do is lose this stall, I hate it. I will change the weights if that's what I need to do, but don't want to invest in them if it's not gonna work.

Can the weights make a big difference in the stall?

:confusion:


----------



## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

You need a softer primary spring to do away with the stall ,weights do affect stall but it sounds like you are wanting a stock spring to me


----------



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

What is the "washer mod?"


Yeah, maybe stock is what I want. Whatever it takes to get rid of the stall, run the engine at a lower rpm, save wear and tear and fuel.

Man, didn't realize this thing was going to be such a gas hog, LOL. My 420 Rancher will run over twice as far on the same amount of fuel.

But it won't pull wheelies, LOL.


----------



## DrillersGoDeeper (Jan 3, 2009)

I have my complete stock set-up if you're still looking into going that direction. Can get pics of if you want. Let me know. (springs and weights)


----------



## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

it has half as many cylindars


----------



## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Washer mod is easy and simple , Remove the cvt cover then the spider bolts(8) and put a small washer in between the spider plate and the clutch then reassemble the clutch this will lower your operating rpm at any given speed full info is in the how-to section


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Guy....you all know how much I fool with Clutching and I never seen a Maroon or Pink spring with stall. The Pink is just about stock. They should have no stall at all.....I am confused here!!!...LOL! With the Red Secondary your motor will run at a higher RPM. No matter what you can't run a stock secondary with 29.5 Swamplites. You can go as low as a Lime Green Secondary....I would put the stock weights back on it and go from there.


----------



## DrillersGoDeeper (Jan 3, 2009)

PM sent Bootlegger.


----------



## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Bootlegger said:


> No matter what you can't run a stock secondary with 29.5 Swamplites. You can go as low as a Lime Green Secondary....I would put the stock weights back on it and go from there.


 Yeah stock secondary with 29.5 s the belt would last about 10 min.:haha: I think he just needs to go back to stock setup on primary


----------



## DrillersGoDeeper (Jan 3, 2009)

^ I have a buddy that is running 29.5's Outlaws skinnies all around with stock clutching and he actually does pretty well in the mud too. It does lag some in the thick stuff, but as long as he is in LOW, it does pretty good...FWIW


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

DrillersGoDeeper said:


> PM sent Bootlegger.


Returned my friend...


----------



## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Wow I figured them laws would eat the belt up ...


----------



## DrillersGoDeeper (Jan 3, 2009)

^ Still on his stock belt. He rides pretty hard too...


----------



## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Kawie must have invested a lot of time finding the center of the spectrum on clutching . .....Boot is prob the only one with more time invested in clutching than Kawie:haha:


----------



## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

You must have lighter weights in the primary. With stock weights you should have only a slight stall if any with the EPI maroon primary. The EPI maroon is a great spring but it will raise your RPM some over stock for sure. IMO with those 29.5's i would leave it in there but you can go with a stock one if you like with no trouble.

As for the secondary this is were i tend to go a different route then most. Most people believe the stronger the better for a secondary but I really don't. Don't get me wrong a stiffer then stock secondary spring is important to help with the load heavy tires put on the belt but i no way think you need a EPI red spring. There are people running 31 Laws in the mud with that spring...and are happy! IMO thats over kill for your tires and type of riding you say you do.

My suggesting would be to start with stock weights (Be sure to get the lighter ones out if you can)Stock weights is what your looking for.

EPI Maroon,Pink or stock primary. The pink is almost a stock spring.Just a hair stiffer.

And in the secondary a EPI Almond.The Almond is a great secondary spring as well.You could go for a EPI Green secondary but with my 28's its was way more then i needed but may be fine for the taller heaver swamp lites.

Now this is just my opinion based on much reading of what worked for others in the past and quit a bit of testing on my part as well.


Like Drillergodeeper pointed out. There are a bunch of folks running big heavy pure mud tires on a stock under clutched setup and doing OK with it. While i don't recommend that i will say that theirs about as many running around over clutched.

In the end you will have to find the perfect balance for those tall heavy tires. Have you considered going down in tire size since you do very little mudding? If you dropped to say a 26"-27" tire with stock clutching you could get way better mileage.

Good luck with what ever you try.


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

Like Metal Man said......I usually don't run a stiff spring like most would. You would be fine with a Green secondary..... but no lower....your tires weigh only a pound of so less than 29.5X10x12 Outlaws. The stiffest spring I will run is a Blue and that was with with EDL's once or twice. I run a Lime Green most of the time with 28x10 Silverbacks or EDL's. Other than that is the Almond. But I will agree with Metal Man....I usually won't run a real stiff spring.


----------



## Bootlegger (Dec 18, 2008)

hondarecoveryman said:


> Kawie must have invested a lot of time finding the center of the spectrum on clutching . .....Boot is prob the only one with more time invested in clutching than Kawie:haha:


I am firm believer in stock weights.....I just play around with it alot....you know....finding the best combo for my style of racing & riding. I think I have found mine.:rockn:


----------



## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

Still searching for the perfect combo , Running stock 750 Brute springs on my P650 ,Primary and secondary all P650 weights ...But it seems to transfer to quick on the primary what would you suggest ? Only mod not listed in sig ... 11 to 1 wiseco pistons,stock bore ..But shhh the wife doesent know


----------



## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

EPI Maroon 

I'm telling you.You will like it.


----------



## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

O.K. Metalman Im takin your word on this one


----------



## Hambone_22345 (Jun 19, 2009)

*FIXED!!!!!*

OK. The stall is gone. I went back into it today (call me a glutton for punishment, LOL). Last weekend when I had it all apart, I didn't pay much attention to the weights once I figured out I only had 2 of the stock ones... Anyway, today I took it all apart again and felt of the weights and they were STICKING! Turns out, once I looked them over good, there was some light corrosion on the pins that the weights swivel on causing them to be sticky and not swing freely. (Yeah, I know, the service manual says they should swing freely...I just didn't check that close Saturday.) Anyway, after a quick run chucked into my cordless drill with some fine steel wool, and a quick brush out of the weight holes with a brass brush chucked into the drill, everything was nice and clean and the weights were swinging freely! I put it all back together and, wouldn't you know it, the stall is GONE! Guess I should have paid more attention to it Saturday.

By the way, the weights have K54 stamped on them, so I assume that's 54 grams. 

Also, I talked with Highlifter and EPI today. I didn't realize that the HL kits have EPI springs, so the colors from the HL Outlaw clutch kit are pink primary and red secondary.

Anyway, it still runs at too high an rpm to suit me, but the stall is gone, and it hooks up even better. I think I'll pick up a set of stock weights and a green or almond secondary and see if it improves things. 

Drillersgodeeper, I am sending you a pm about your stock setup.

Thanks for all the help folks, this forum is the greatest!

:mimbrules:


----------



## DrillersGoDeeper (Jan 3, 2009)

Got our PM. Sent back.


----------

