# So..this is what I found, and it can't be good



## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

well as a new owner of the brute and getting used to my way around the workings of this beast, i am on my 3rd belt after 3 rides. Thought it was the Clutch kit so I talked to bootlegger and we needed to figure out which springs were in there.....

well i took my cover off today and found this.

WTF!






no wonder this ***** doesn't have any power, rides like ****, and eats belts up....

I any and all help is greatly appreciated and i am a brute noob so....helpa brother out


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

That belt is WAY too loose... Is that because of the springs? Or is that how you installed it? 

Just FYI, just post the link and mimb does the rest... 

http://www.youtube.com/v/WVu-thoyVb8?fs=1&hl=en_US


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

What size tires are you running? Better be 29.5" or bigger with th red secondary... And not sure if the pink primary is good with the red...


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

i haven't done anything to the belt, and if you can't tell thats a pink primary and red secondary, and yea I don't know much but i know the belt IS WAY to loose i can almost pinch it together and make it touch.


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

yea, 29.5 laws....and im going to change out the primary to almond


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

Yeah, u need to tighten that belt up for sure... And try a different primary... 

You stated that you are on the 3rd belt... Who changed the belts?


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Deflection is a little off . Need to get it down to about 22mms. Looks to be near 28-30. I used to run the red secondary for years. Stretched belts but never wasted them.


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

gpinjason said:


> Yeah, u need to tighten that belt up for sure... And try a different primary...
> 
> You stated that you are on the 3rd belt... Who changed the belts?


i was reading the how-to thread about tightening the belt. on-site kawi techs at the rides



nmkawierider said:


> Deflection is a little off . Need to get it down to about 22mms. Looks to be near 28-30. I used to run the red secondary for years. Stretched belts but never wasted them.


think its just a little?? i'm going to measure the deflection soon as I get my hands on a straight edge, now is it 22mm apart once putting pressure? or only suppose to move 22mm?


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## byrd (Jul 14, 2009)

i tried red with pink and it did ok but the almond is way better


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

so, besides guessing about how much putting 13psi on the belt to measure deflection is there a more specific way to tighten the belt? and I dont know if you noticed (or it may be a stupid question) but when i was revving the engine, it wasn't revving higher....it was sputtering and not fully tightening the belt. I don't know....but is it suppose to rev to a certain point and the belt keep getting tighter?

also on the primary clutch are the sheaves suppose to be touching at the base because i can see a bar between them and the belt is clunking.....


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

are you certain that you have the proper belt part number?


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## jbadon (Sep 21, 2009)

like phree said never seen one that loose


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

i would have assumed the kawi tech put on the proper belt...


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Fifty-Three said:


> think its just a little?? i'm going to measure the deflection soon as I get my hands on a straight edge, now is it 22mm apart once putting pressure? or only suppose to move 22mm?


You will put the straight edge across both clutches on the top, with a blunt object like a broken screwdriver find about the centerpoint between the two or the point where you get the most deflection, push down with about 8-13 lbs of pressure next to the straightedge being sure not to be in one of the grooves of the coggs, and measure the distance between the bottom of the straight edge and the bottom of your..broken screwdriver. I use a small vicegrip and lock the driver to the straightedge, then take it to the bench to measure with a caliper I have that has millimeters.


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## outskirtsdweller (Jul 6, 2009)

Here is a pic of me checking the deflection on a prairie 360...I use a fish scale to get in the ballpark of 13#'s of downforce to check deflection on the belt....thats what the hook is in the pic...the scale is not exact science but it has always worked well for me...spec is 22 to 27 mm's and the closer to 22 the better...get down at eye level and read the where the ruler meets the bottom of the straight edge...I wish you well....plenty of good folks here that will help you thru the problem....


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## Rack High (Feb 23, 2010)

phreebsd said:


> are you certain that you have the proper belt part number?


I'm with Phree on this one...doesn't look like the right belt. I've run the pink/red setup for 8 months on a Kawi belt and had no problems.


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

hmmm, wonder how i can tell if it is the right belt....or just stretched the **** out.

i'll take some pics of me measuring the deflection


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

ok, i measured the deflection.

i took one of my old tie rod ends, laid it on the secondary extending down to the primary, and i put pressure on it to rest it on the primary

with pressure from my finger i pressed down on the middle of the belt ~13lbs

i measure in a ball park of 1.75" to 2" from the top of the belt to the bottom of the tie rod which comes out to about 44-50mm of deflection.....


are there enough shims to remove to tighten that up?

what is my next step ?

you guys have been great and thanks for the patience


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

Rack High said:


> I'm with Phree on this one...doesn't look like the right belt. I've run the pink/red setup for 8 months on a Kawi belt and had no problems.


how was your stall?

my stall with this belt is annoying....seems like it has to rev to 2000 rpm or something


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

The pink Primary should have almost no stall... The stall you are getting is from the belt slipping because it's so loose!


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## jbadon (Sep 21, 2009)

im leaning towards wrong belt for some reason just double check to make sure


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## badazzbrute (Apr 11, 2010)

The belt don't look bad... I am with everyone else as far as it being possibly the wrong belt... It also sounds like your engine is not revving high enough.. Sounds like you have a little prob there as well... I don't know, just sounds like something is not right there...


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

You better get a real straightedge and take the measurement again. There is no way the correct belt can possibily stretch out that far...ever. And if you actualy have that amount of deflection, by the time it engages, its already half way up the primary shive and the ratio there at startup is what's killing your belts...let alone the amount of stall you must have...

You will need a primary puller and a spring compressor....and the manual or follow the directions in the how-to section on adjusting deflection.


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

badazzbrute said:


> The belt don't look bad... I am with everyone else as far as it being possibly the wrong belt... It also sounds like your engine is not revving high enough.. Sounds like you have a little prob there as well... I don't know, just sounds like something is not right there...


yea, seems like it was hitting some sort of rev limiter or something.....that kinda baffled me to, i just thought thats what it was being the belt cover was off. hmmm now im wondering




nmkawierider said:


> You better get a real straightedge and take the measurement again. There is no way the correct belt can possibily stretch out that far...ever. And if you actualy have that amount of deflection, by the time it engages, its already half way up the primary shive and the ratio there at startup is what's killing your belts...let alone the amount of stall you must have...
> 
> You will need a primary puller and a spring compressor....and the manual or follow the directions in the how-to section on adjusting deflection.


kawi, you hit the nail on the head....the stall was rediculous....and it was nailing my belts hard....


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

anyone got any idea on the first step i should take to figuring this **** out??

should i do another video and show the clutch from start up?

or any particular area to maybe further this investigation?


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm not sure if I missed it somewhere, but what year is your bike, and is it 650 or 750? 

I say, take the belt off, go buy a new one from Kawasaki, then compare the numbers on the outside and the length of the two belts... if indeed the original belt is the wrong one, then put the new one on, set the deflection to the correct specs. then try it out... If the belt numbers match, then you need to find out WHY it is stretching a belt that much, but it shouldn't stretch that far without breaking... 

as for acting like it's hitting a rev limiter, it's probably because you have the belt switch tripped (or unplugged) you will have to get the cover put back on, and the connectors plugged back in, then do the belt light reset procedure... 

Belt adjustment and light reset procedure can be found here --> http://www.mudinmyblood.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18

after you do all that, if it's still in limp mode, then it could be something else... if it's an EFI bike, it could be the roll over sensor?

and you shouldn't run the bike with the cvt cover off, with the KEBC actuator plugged in... If I remember right, it can mess up the actuator...


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## drtyTshrt (May 27, 2009)

I am in Pooler and have the tools to fix what ever you want to fix. Give me a shout and lets check it out b4 you go back to the dealer.


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

gpinjason said:


> I'm not sure if I missed it somewhere, but what year is your bike, and is it 650 or 750?
> 
> I say, take the belt off, go buy a new one from Kawasaki, then compare the numbers on the outside and the length of the two belts... if indeed the original belt is the wrong one, then put the new one on, set the deflection to the correct specs. then try it out... If the belt numbers match, then you need to find out WHY it is stretching a belt that much, but it shouldn't stretch that far without breaking...
> 
> ...


awesome, ill get this belt straightened out, i think it is the most obvious and work from there.....thanks for all ur information



drtyTshrt said:


> I am in Pooler and have the tools to fix what ever you want to fix. Give me a shout and lets check it out b4 you go back to the dealer.


i might just take you up on that offer...whatcha doing this weekend? i actually live in guyton, so i may actually be closer.


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## oldmanbrute (Apr 15, 2009)

I would try a new belt 1st......if that is the correct belt, I wouldn't waste my time adjusting one that loose.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

oldmanbrute said:


> I would try a new belt 1st......if that is the correct belt, I wouldn't waste my time adjusting one that loose.


I agree. You don't have enough shims to take out to loose 20+mms. That belt is either the wrong one, or she has broken cords.

Here is what I use to check deflection. Lay the straight edge across the clutches, lay the plunger next to the straight edge and push down keeping it 90 degrees with the straight edge, lock it in place with a vice grip, then take it to the bench and measure the distance from the botton of the straight edge to the end of the plunger with a caliper that shows millimeters. Cake. By the way, that's what 23mms deflection looks like.

http://s483.photobucket.com/albums/rr196/BFFreak_2008/Misc Photos/?action=view&current=DSC02303.jpg


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## camo650 (Jan 9, 2009)

I bet thats a Teryx belt. The Teryx has a different part number for the belt from the Brute's. Just because a Kawi dealer tech put it on doesn't mean they know what they are doing.


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

oldmanbrute said:


> I would try a new belt 1st......if that is the correct belt, I wouldn't waste my time adjusting one that loose.


10-4 i know i'm gonna go pick up an oem belt this weekend



nmkawierider said:


> I agree. You don't have enough shims to take out to loose 20+mms. That belt is either the wrong one, or she has broken cords.


lol yea....without even looking at a micrometer i can tell its way more than 23mm.... 



camo650 said:


> I bet thats a Teryx belt. The Teryx has a different part number for the belt from the Brute's. Just because a Kawi dealer tech put it on doesn't mean they know what they are doing.


very well could be. are the teryx belts larger?..yea i'm beginning to question the legitimacy of that kawi dealer that was at the ride.....

to many people are suggesting wrong belt for it to be just a coincidence....and i initially thought it could be the wrong belt right when i pulled the clutch cover, but i was giving the tech the benefit of the doubt....


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## Rack High (Feb 23, 2010)

Fifty-Three said:


> how was your stall?
> 
> my stall with this belt is annoying....seems like it has to rev to 2000 rpm or something


About 1800RPM but I'm never rough with it. I feather the throttle until she engages and then here comes the torque...


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

ok, so i got my clutch puller and new belt in. and popped off the primary clutch tonight.

the belts appear to be the same size. uh oh!

sheaves feel fine, but is there suppose to be a large gap between the sheaves on the primary?.....

i just want to make sure i get this done right the first time....

i'll be more than happy to take pics of anything u guys have questions about.


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## Brute650i (Dec 17, 2008)

how large of a gap? should be a small gap but not much maybe 1/8" 

the spider may have gotten loose and started to loosen itself up. need to take it off and inspect everything good


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## fl750mudder (Apr 15, 2009)

It sounds to me like it is in limp mode also


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## wood butcher (May 11, 2009)

the gap in the primary should be just wider than the belt , so it will spin lose without engaging the belt at idle


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

wow......*

CONCLUSION!

*so last night after making my clutch tool like in the "how-to" and a little plasma cutter action, i pulled the secondary clutch.

I Immediately noticed burs and scratches all over the inside of the secondary clutch. my neighbors and I deducted the scars from what looked like the previous owners used a screwdriver to try and pry the clutch apart or something. but it was bad

i took some fine grit sandpaper and sanded the sheaves down smooth and polished it up with a scotchbrite/buffing pad. so its back silky smooth.

next we popped the keepers out, and separated the clutch finding 2 shims....I removed the thicker of the two and painstakingly put the keepers back in, then re-assembled the clutch with the new oem belt.

 wow......the crazy stall is gone, it feels like there isn't hardly one on there now, its so slight with the pink. 

and for the 1st time it will stand up even with 29.5 wides on the front :rockn:

it feels like im putting every bit of the power to ground now....

THANKS to everybody that offered opinions, suggestions, and help....without it i would have been out of a crap load of money by taking it to the dealership....also the "how-to's" section is like a brute force bible, whatever you guys suggested i found the instructions and directions there.....i'm a forever member here..



EDIT: in the mix of all that i used the 2 window spring compressor to remove the red sec spring, and used the belt light reset instructions to get the belt light off....everything worked like a charm


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Right-on...good to hear. Enjoy your Brute.


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## gpinjason (Nov 10, 2009)

Good to hear!! sounds like maybe the other person stretched the belt when he installed it... but glad you got it taken care of!


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## BleednGreen68 (Apr 19, 2010)

I've seen atvs come in from customers that blew a belt, put a new belt in, and still doesnt work right. Sometimes when you shred a belt, the pieces of the belt can get into the clutch and cause the deflection to be way off. Take it apart and check for pieces. Check the belt exhaust tube for pieces of belt or "fluff". That will tell ya if it had a prior belt prob.


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## 1bigforeman (Jun 23, 2009)

Fifty-Three said:


> hmmm, wonder how i can tell if it is the right belt....or just stretched the **** out.
> 
> i'll take some pics of me measuring the deflection


You can stretch a belt a little but not that much. From factory, you usually have one shim in the secondary. For that much play, hopefully you have 4 shims or that is the wrong belt....


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Fifty-Three said:


> wow......
> 
> ....also the "how-to's" section is like a brute force bible,


 
Hahaha i like that comment :agreed:


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## 03dsglightning (Jun 18, 2010)

BleednGreen68 said:


> I've seen atvs come in from customers that blew a belt, put a new belt in, and still doesnt work right. Sometimes when you shred a belt, the pieces of the belt can get into the clutch and cause the deflection to be way off. Take it apart and check for pieces. Check the belt
> exhaust tube for pieces of belt or "fluff". That will tell ya if it had a prior belt prob.


Ahh the fluff lol... Not so funny when the snorkel throws it at you.


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

03dsglightning said:


> Ahh the fluff lol... Not so funny when the snorkel throws it at you.


 Or the chunks of belt that usually follow


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## Fifty-Three (Jul 5, 2010)

haha


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## byrd (Jul 14, 2009)

hondarecoveryman said:


> Or the chunks of belt that usually follow


thats y my exhaust snorkel is turned down! it takes forever to get that crap out ur eyes lol:brick:


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## BleednGreen68 (Apr 19, 2010)

Oh man forgot about you guys with snorkels! Thats gotta suck. I assume everyone here rides with their mouth wide open with a grin on their face? haha bugs and fluff in the teeth has to suck haha


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