# Balancing Mud tires



## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

As the title says, are any of you balancing mud tires such as 29.5s? All my driving is all around...trail,mud,water,tactical/woods,hills you name it and im completely satisfied on how these tires perform except for one aspect. There as smooth as can be up to about 40km/h (22mph or so?) After that the front end sways side to side and the handle bars turn back and forth on there own.

Im going to guess this is completely a tire balancing issue, not anything to do with toe in/toe out or camber.

Anyway, after that speed the faster I go it's nerve racking. As it should be because how fast your going and how violent and uncontrollable it is. I was wondering what method people are using to counteract this. Are you going ahead and trying to use an actual balancer and sticking a bunch of sticky weights in the rim? or has anybody used the special sand/what ever it is and placed it in the tire so when u gain speed the sand spreads out the uneven weight?

Let me know, thanks.


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## adam6604 (Feb 5, 2012)

well sand balancing is good when you have chunks of mud on your tires changing where the weight needs to be, so i think sand balance is really the only good choice for a mud tire like yours. sticky weights would work good if they rim/tires were clean ALL the time. if i were you i'd throw a bag of sand in your tires and see how it goes. i work at a tire shop and it's kind of the same idea with really aggresive tires such as boggers for people who get muddy alot. they always come back saying our sticky/pound on weight balancing fails once the tires are dirty.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

I thought so the weights wouldn't work.. How much sand should be put in? like in weight?


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

I don't think id put anything in there. Added weight & rotating mass. Big mud tires weren't meant to be run WO down the trail/road. One day people will realize that. Or not. Probably not since we've e been saying it for 5 years here.


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## adam6604 (Feb 5, 2012)

i agree with polaris every week i turn customers away telling them balancing probably wont do much. the tires they're running aren't ment for that. i would find one of the smaller bags of sand you can find and just try that. hard to say what you would need. hopefully it helps you.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

And I'm going to say its not all balance. I know of no large-lugged tire that doesn't shake the front end to some degree and it doesn't matter the size. Of course the bigger the worse it gets. And oddly...the more toe-in it has...the worse it gets so set them at zero.


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## newbie (Nov 18, 2011)

With sand balancing when you stop In a trail just remember that the sand will fall to the bottom and when you take off it will really shake


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## countryboy61283 (Mar 20, 2010)

When laws came out they really weren't designed for trial riding like hard pack dirt or anything rocky. There a pure mud tire but most including me also use them as a all around tire. I very rarely get over 30 so I don't worry about all the shaking but the ruff riding of the tire and my suspension setup is just part of it. Like p said, your adding more weight on top of a already heavy tire


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

This all makes sense and I know the extra weight is bad and it won't make it completely go away, but 45km/h is 28mph and it's shaking bad at that speed.. I mean each corner of the front plastics Id say is going up and down about 1.5-2" every .5 second and handle bars swaying back and forth on there own. 30mph isn't much at all, am I just asking for too much? I compare to my dads 800 gade on 28" backs and it's wayyyy less then that and that would be at a speed of about 50mph...

My toe in is at about 1/4" each side. Just enough to keep it from wandering but is almost perfectly straight.

Edit: I suppose the only way to really tell is to get em on a balancer and see if there's any really bad spots. If so I can help dim the shaking some, and make it a bit smoother. If there not majorly out of balance then something else is up...


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

Mine didn't shake that bad & Irgun her up to 40 a few times.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Waddaman said:


> My toe in is at about 1/4" each side. Just enough to keep it from wandering but is almost perfectly straight.


That's a full 1/2" total toein. WAY over the max. You are luck to get 30 out of it. I set mine at 2/32 total. You need to be closer to zero. Try it at least. It will help. The book says 10mm+-. The center of that range is...zero.


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## hp488 (Sep 23, 2009)

Have to agree with everyone on this. If it is that bad break the tire down and spin it some on the rim and air it back up you will find a position that is better.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

2/32? Really? that's it? I don't think I can get laws that close.. I can try to see if it makes a difference though. So toe in? The only thing that worries me about going that close is that I got so much lift when when the front end suspension drops down a bit the toe out increase a little bit and don't want it to drop to 0-0 when riding.

How did you get it too 2/32? I was just using a big straight piece of wood and put it flat against the rear tire level, and then against the front. I tried measuring the distance between the front of the tire compared to the back but that was a pain and it seemed every time I rolled it ahead it would change.


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## bigblackbrute (Jun 3, 2009)

Dang man my 31s dnt shake like that at all ive been up to 60 on them

FATBOYZ CUSTOMZ CREW


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## 2010Bruterider (Jun 20, 2010)

Try setting your toe with your stock tires on it. I understand how hard it is to set the toe with Laws, I did it once myself. Also, what kind of shape are your front suspension parts in? Ball joints, A-arm bushings, and tie rods? They could be contributing to your high speed wander.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Waddaman said:


> 2/32? Really? that's it? I don't think I can get laws that close.. I can try to see if it makes a difference though. So toe in? The only thing that worries me about going that close is that I got so much lift when when the front end suspension drops down a bit the toe out increase a little bit and don't want it to drop to 0-0 when riding.
> 
> How did you get it too 2/32? I was just using a big straight piece of wood and put it flat against the rear tire level, and then against the front. I tried measuring the distance between the front of the tire compared to the back but that was a pain and it seemed every time I rolled it ahead it would change.


Its tough with 26s and I'll bet even tougher with 28-31s. I have done it with the strings but it a lot easier with alignment equipment...which I just happen to have access to.

Quads with mud tires don't act like cars with regard to toe-in. They don't just plow and shave off the outside edge, they "cow-toe" meaning one side loads up and releases then the other side loads up and releases...back and forth..watch the fenders when it starts, you will see them dip and pop back up just as the other side starts. It looks like its rocking kinda. And the shaking increases and you go faster...feels like out of balance tires. I'll almost bet you take them in and have them balanced, put them back on and take it for a run and the problem is still there. At least you will know for sure. I loved my XTRs but even after balancing they did it and it took setting the toe in to zero to get them to stop shaking my front end apart...but that also made it suck at high speed trail riding so they had to go.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

I don't have stock tires :/

All my bushings/bearings are tight as can be on all 4 corners.

And Proper equipment would be nice but I don't have access to it :/

Edit: Another question is, the toe in is amplified with bigger tires is it not? or should is still be the same not matter what?


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Waddaman said:


> I don't have stock tires :/
> 
> All my bushings/bearings are tight as can be on all 4 corners.
> 
> ...


Toe in is the difference between the back of the tire and the front to a fixed point. So, if you set your toe-in with 25" tires then put 30s on it..you will have lots more.. so you will need to re-set it.


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## Waddaman (Oct 3, 2010)

So you have to adjust it for those tires. k Gonna be hard as hell to get 2/32 tho lol.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

Waddaman said:


> So you have to adjust it for those tires. k Gonna be hard as hell to get 2/32 tho lol.


With your tires don't sweat it. Make it zero and give each tierod an 1/8 of a turn out. Thay will get you close enough.


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## JLOWERY (Jan 30, 2010)

I balanced my mud *****'s and had a set of XTR's and a set of MTC's balanced with no issues they used stick on weights and I put 2 layers of duck tape over the weights and never had one come off. Mine was doing the same thing ok til 20-25 then all hell broke loose it would literally shake the bars out of your hands. That all stopped after I got them balanced those mud *****'s were terrible the best one was 14oz the worst was 31oz all the way across the wheel 3 layers high but they rode smooth after that.


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