# Header Glowing Red



## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

I just got back from riding the brute and was wondering why my Big Gun Header was glowing red after about 4 hours of riding... I was doing some donuts in sand, in 4wd, stopped and the header that connects to the engine was bright red. (about a foot) Anyone know if this is normal?:thinking: Dyno Tuner said as long as it's not the full headers, it's pretty normal because it's stainless and creates much more heat. Anybody had this happen to them?
Any comments appreciated.


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## fstang24 (Jan 9, 2010)

you think you running lean??


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

i don't know, but that would explain some of the heat problems...:thinking:


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## fstang24 (Jan 9, 2010)

sounds like a lean condition bud, you need to run a plug test, pull your plugs and see what they look like


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Can you pull them out anytime or does it have to be after running it a bit?


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

To get a good reading you probably need to start with new plugs. Run your atv and get it warmed up with the old plugs. Then remove the old plugs and replace with new plugs. start her up and try not to let it idle too long, run it at the rpm that caused the glowing red pipe in gear under load until it glows again. Hit the kill switch and pull the plugs and take a look at them. There is a thred in here that shows what they should look like if you don't already know. Note be carefull those little buggers are gonna be hot! If they are white or real light grey then your lean. Real dark brown to black your rich.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Alright will do that. Would there happen to be a chance that this is normal? I got it dyno tuned because supposedly it would run perfect. Dyno tuner said it would glow some...


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Any Ideas???


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## fstang24 (Jan 9, 2010)

i dont think they should be glowing bro, do a plug chop test like explained above and that will tell you if your running lean or rich? I took my brute out yesterday and after a four ride my high temp light starting flashing, and a few weeks ago at dso my FI light started flashing, need to look into these issues


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## HHbrute (May 22, 2011)

i agree with fstang. sounds lean


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

IMO dyno tunning is a good place to start but really getting things set in the final mode I would want to see what it's doing on the trail. There are so many things that a Dyno can't recreate on the trail. If I had to guess with out looking at your plugs I would guess it's lean in the rpm range you were using it. As for stainless glowing more than steel? I kinda doubt that too, shouldn't make that much difference between steel and stainless.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

I thought it would run perfect with it being dynoed, but I guess I was wrong. Will check the plugs asap to see how its doing.


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## brute for mud (Jul 15, 2010)

a dyno will give you the most power but not the right air/fuel at times just my opinion


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## Bacon (Jul 14, 2011)

wyo58 said:


> IMO dyno tunning is a good place to start but really getting things set in the final mode I would want to see what it's doing on the trail. There are so many things that a Dyno can't recreate on the trail.


Wyo couldn't have said it better. Imagine this... a dyno simulates ride conditions under the most ideal circumstances; climate controlled testing area, flat terrain, no obstacles and places no load or "resistance" if you will, that you would experience out on the trail (except for ground friction of course which could be argued by the TYPE of terrain you ride on). Your bike is tuned for ideal circumstances, and might very well be tuned properly FOR those circumstances but the truth be told, the tuners aren't placing gnarly boulders on their belts for your bike to climb over while they're tuning it.

(Can you imagine though? submerge the platform in some thick sludge and THEN tune your mudder! bwahaha...)

In any case, what I'm getting at is dyno-tuning does not = real world conditions and there are so many variables in our sport that change the way your atv performs.

Speaking of variables... at what elevation was the place you had your bike tuned at vs. where you ride at? If there is a significant difference you may need to rejet... as many before have said, you're probably running lean.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

That is some thoughts I hadn't thought of to tell you the truth. I completely agree with wyo58 and bacon, the dyno tunes it for a specific terrain, therefore it will be off in the mud and trails.
Bacon- The place i got it tuned at can't be that much higher then where I ride it at, IMO. It was in Cleveland (45 mins from crosby going towards splendora) for those who live in Texas and i ride at Crosby. Probably maybe 10-20 feet higher then where I ride at, but not too sure. Will riding the brute at 10-15 ft above sea level and getting it tuned for example, like at 40 ft above sea level change anything?


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## Bacon (Jul 14, 2011)

tx_brute_rider said:


> Will riding the brute at 10-15 ft above sea level and getting it tuned for example, like at 40 ft above sea level change anything?


Yes and no. Yes in that ANY change in conditions will affect how your machine performs... Enough to make a difference? More than likely not.

What's puzzling to me is if you ARE running lean you're doing it with a full bug gun, and 2" snorks. USUALLY when you run a full header/muffler system you don't have to rejet, however every bike's different and yours just might be one of the exceptioins. Only other option I can think of (aside from spending some dough on a pc-3 or 5) off the top of my head is if you've got your snorkels faced in to the wind try turning em towards you. Had that issue on my old man's bike after snorkeling with a 3". Otherwise hit up bootlegger for some good info on jetting.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

The 08+ Brute 750's are Fuel Injected. I got it dyno tuned and I was told it was running lean with the Full Big Gun, he showed me on the computer. The A/F was at about 16 or 17 if I remember correctly and he got it down to 12.5-13.0. 

I already have an MSD, it's like a Power Commander but with timing. Suppose to be the best Fuel controller for these brutes.

BTW, my snorkels are facing me when I sit on the brute(away from the wind)


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## Bacon (Jul 14, 2011)

Perfect AF means no need to rejet but even after being warned of a mild to moderate glow, the way you described the red reaching about a foot or more back from the start of the headers denotes a problem some where along the line.

This might be a silly question but during your 4 hour ride did you take breaks along the way to let your bike cool off? Sometimes it's the simple things...

Your bike's got quite a bit in the way of mods and I can honestly say that the more power you've got the more you need to worry about HEAT! It may not even be a matter of fuel/air ratios but an issue with cooling. Check your radiator to make sure it isn't clogged with anything. (Do a lot or even moderate mudding? your sig doesn't say you've got a rad relocate.) Check your fluids, change your oil if you haven't done so in a while. Check your coolant as it DOES have a operational life-span even if the tank's full so take a look at that as well. If nothing else, check your radiator and flush it if you haven't since you got the bike. Anything you can do to reduce heat will help. Might look at getting an oil cooler if you take really long rides down where the heat's unforgiving.


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## Bacon (Jul 14, 2011)

Again though, I'd like to emphasize that those "perfect A/F ratios" were achieved under ideal circumstances.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Yea it was red where the header bolts to the motor, about a foot and it stopped where it curves. (It was like the color of your font color of your 2011 Brute Force 750i in Royal Red Signature)

I took about 3 breaks the entire time now that I look at it... Maybe about 5-10 minutes each. 

The header started glowing when I was about to leave. Decided to get some last quality time right before I left, did donuts in the sand 4WD(5 mins mid throttle), stopped and go off. It was at night, only reason I noticed it was because it looked like I had a Red LED Underglow on the plastics.Lol. Looked and to my shock it was glowing red

Engine oil and radiator fluid have about less then 75 miles on it. Cleaned the radiator fins with eagle mag about 100 miles ago, never go above the radiator though. Hardly go above the differentials because I don't want to be changing the front diff fluid.


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Checked your plugs yet tx?


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

No not yet, will try to check them today though. Is there a link or how to on the plug chop test, searched but didnt find anything.


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

The how to is posted above tx and the spark plug color chart is listed in the quick links.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks for the info wyo, got it now. Will probably end up doing the plug chop test tomorrow because I don' have enough time to do it today. 
Will keep you all updated and again thanks for all the info guys.


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Your welcome tx good luck with it!


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

UPDATE​
Just came back from a ride and the header was only slightly glowing before the bend now, where it curves before the gas tank about a foot. Rode it for about 5 hours and only stopped for about 4 times and each time was about 5 mins. That may be the problem... Just trail riding around and hitting some mud puddles for you guys Performed flawlessly and there is some mud now in Crosby, not a dust bowl anymore. Btw, seen a 10' brute with a full muzzy shooting out flames


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## fstang24 (Jan 9, 2010)

**** bro cant call and send me an invite....


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Sorry bro, been without a phone for about 3 days... It sucks, no technology or connections to people. That's why I haven't been posting much, have to come to the computer:aargh4:


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

Rich is also an option here. Mine is but I still haven't found time to worry with that. Better to be rich than lean so no hurries here.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

But with being lean it makes more ponies, j/k.

Really need to look into this though:33:. The bottom of my plastics with the slightly red header make my brute look like it has a red led under glow to it. The brute seems to function well though... Forgot to mention where I ride at I don't go above 35MPH and that's pushing it. So the low, middle, and high throttle A/F will probably be off to some degree, I'm assuming it's the low level though...


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

tx yeah lean does create more hp right up until it blows up lol. But I don't think your quite that lean so get it fixed sooner than later.

Wcs it's true rich is safer than lean as far as the engine grenading. The only thing to worry about with rich is cylinder washing. Over long periods the rich condition can clean the cylinder walls of oil. 

But I agree with both of you, it's more fun to ride than fix! :bigok:


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## wcs61 (Jun 7, 2011)

^
Don't forget the heat cooking your legs while it's glowing red.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Yea I need to wash it off now, but it's too hot now:aargh4: Do any of you guys know how to add more air or fuel to the MSD? I know I kind of sound dumb, but it's because I got it Dynoed and didn't know WTF:thinking: I was doing on the laptop... 
Btw if it is running lean it needs more fuel and if it is running rich it needs for air. <Is this correct?


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## wyo58 (May 13, 2011)

Correct lean means you need more fuel, rich means you need less fuel. You can't really get more air without air box mods or air filter change, and even then it's minimal. You will have to make changes in the fuel map with the ecu. I suggest before you do this to save your exisiting map so you can always go back to it. Create new maps using your map changing the areas where you are running lean. Do it in steps, like lean map1 and lean map2, etc. you will create more files but you can at least see where your going and where you've been. I'm not completely up to date on MSD's but they all have a way to add fuel to the maps.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

*UPDATE*​
Forgot to mention to you guys that I have the stock aluminum heat shield that is right beside the motor screwed onto the header. The silver one that reduces heat from the side plastic. I customized to fit where it was melting the gas tank (after that ride) and after that, the header glowed red. Sorry for not mentioning this guys, didn't think it was important. Also was grabbing the long header that reaches to the front of the motor and... When I would very lightly push it, it would move.:34: Turned it on and there was air escaping only on that header. The other short one is a tight fit with no air escaping. Anyone with Big Guns have this problem? Mine only has about 10-15 hrs on it too.:thinking:


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Anyone?:thinking:


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Come on guys.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

They all do some. Big-gun and Muzzy both. Don'y sweat it. Long as the plugs are burning right, she's fine. Its that thin tube they use to get a little more ID.


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh alright, going to try putting on High Temp Permatex is what I was told that might help. Everything runs flawless, except a bit of air escaping and it glowing red about a foot. Drove my dad's brute and mine definitly blows it out the water:rockn: His is all stock, except for 27' Swamplites. Thinking about putting in some better clutch springs though... Seems to shift out of gear too quickly. Will try to look at the plugs sometime this week. This will show exactly what is wrong with it.


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## NMKawierider (Apr 11, 2009)

tx_brute_rider said:


> Oh alright, going to try putting on High Temp Permatex is what I was told that might help. Everything runs flawless, except a bit of air escaping and it glowing red about a foot. Drove my dad's brute and mine definitly blows it out the water:rockn: His is all stock, except for 27' Swamplites. Thinking about putting in some better clutch springs though... Seems to shift out of gear too quickly. Will try to look at the plugs sometime this week. This will show exactly what is wrong with it.


Might not be anything wrong with it. If the pug has any color at all, run it and stop looking....lol


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## tx_brute_rider (Feb 18, 2011)

Okay, that's definitely true. Trying to fix every problem I run into, but everything can't be perfect you know. The spark plug chart here, is really good.


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