# Clutching



## fstang24

No much clutch info for can-ams on this site so figured I ask. Just picked up new set of 28" Outlaw 2's here in town, got a heck of a deal could not pass up. So their going on my rene 1000. Can I get away with stock clutching for now or should I upgrade immediatley? I dont really want to dump a dalton kit in it, rather save up the coin and get either a qsc primary or cvtech. Any info is appreciated.


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## JPs300

A 1k will do fine with stock clutching, in fact there are several down here in South FL doing well with 29.5's and stock clutching. 

If you were to do anything to "get bye" before upgrading the primary, a $25 spring or two would do plenty.


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## dookie

Any pics of the new boots on the gade?


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## filthyredneck

^ agreed. I ride with a guy that has 29.5 OL2s on his 1000 with stock clutch and it does good. I ran OG 29.5s on my 800 stock clutch for awhile and never had any trouble.

"Killing Time Using Tapatalk 2"


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## fstang24

jps what spring would you reccomend for the primary?? I heard secondary spring is fine. NO pics yet will have some tomorrow. Thanks for the input filthy. Also do you need to remove the primary clutch assemply to change spring? I dont have clutch puller, not sure where to get one yet, dont think the puller I used on my brute would work.


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## JPs300

You don't need the puller to do a spring because you don't need to remove the inner sheeve. 

I haven't messed with the 1k's yet to give an accurate suggestion on a spring change. - In my 800 max with 29.5 law2's I'm running the 650 secondary helix(like it a lot more than the EPI red spring) and an EPI orange primary spring. It still wasn't high enough for really thick stuff(even at WOT the bike was struggling around 5-6k r's and wouldn't rev on out), so I'm working with some lighter weights right now(800 renegade/xmr) to finish tune it. 

A white primary would have had the about the same initial stall as my orange does, but would have had a better suited finish rate if I kept the stock outlander weights. - That said, the curve of the stock outty weights make them a bit inefficient right after launch, thus the spring I have and the 3 slightly lighter weights should make for a better all-around combo.


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## fstang24

Let me know how your experiment goes, I heard alot of the 800 can ams just drop in a tan spring from dalton, not sure if it works the same with the 1000. I will decide after i take it for the first ride with the new tires what i would do..


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## jrpro130

Mine was completely fine with 29.5. But I will say the primary secondary replacements from qsc and STM took this bike from a stock v8 mustang to a Ferrari if that's a good analogy. 

I never smoke the belt or had any screeching. I was on 29.5


Should be wrenching instead of using TapaTalk


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## fstang24

**** I can dig that thanks for your input


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## JPs300

A tan dalton is about the same as my orange EPI and by itself would definitely not be enough for me. 

We get into the wet concrete mud that you can't walk through sometimes and I need to be able to take-off with the tires. Just a red secondary or tan primary won't do that with law2's, it will slip the belt & not move the tires.


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## fstang24

Well here she is with the new tires. I like the design and they look awesome. I did get to ride it a bit in the backyard. First thing I noticed was some power loss in low end which was expected. They shake a litte under 5mph but over that they are pretty smooth, i was very surprised. At half throttle i got sideways and did a donut with ease, the power of the 1000 is incredible, i can only imagine with some clutching how much better it will be and i may be able to get back that low end snap. FYI mud tires and lawns dont go well together..lol! So far im impressed and the fact that i can pin it and still get sideways and ride like i stole it put a grin on my face. The fronts have no clearance issues, the rears have about 1/2" to 1" clearance from the tire to the flloorboard.


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## flowhandy

Looks nice. Now just needs some mud on it.


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## filthyredneck

Looks good, bout time you put some meat under that beast.

"Killing Time Using Tapatalk 2"


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## fstang24

thanks filthy I like it, looks super tough now lol. Cant wait to get out and ride


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## dookie

Looks like i'm buyin a set of those. They look awesome on the gade. Do you have a pic straight from the side? Good looking ride :bigok:


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## fstang24

dookie said:


> Looks like i'm buyin a set of those. They look awesome on the gade. Do you have a pic straight from the side? Good looking ride :bigok:


 Thanks, I will get some pics and post them soon.


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## dookie

I cant stop looking at pics of your wheeler. Looks so bad a


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## Dirty30s

Ya 06 brute with 30s stock clutch only thing I have in is a black sec d spring and I still pull the wheels at 30 miles a hour

---------- Post added at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 AM ----------

Nice rubber by the way u will love them .....


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## fstang24

thanks dookie,finally taking her out tomorrow


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## dookie

Let us know how it preforms. I want these tires but i'm alittle worried about the weight. I dont really want to buy new clutches for awhile. I liked my 28 backs. Over all the 28 ol2 are 20 lbs heavier for just tires. 20lb is prob not that big a deal though.



fstang24 said:


> thanks dookie,finally taking her out tomorrow


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## fstang24

Mud is Mud!!!!:agreed:


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## dookie

How did you like the tires? Weight an issue?



fstang24 said:


> Mud is Mud!!!!:agreed:


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## fstang24

Well throttle control is a must. I managed to smoke my belt a little bit that was my fault. You do loose some low end but that was expected. I have a clutch kit ok the way. They ride fairly smooth on hardback over 5mph. They pulled great in mud and are east to trail ride with. Very satisfied with the tires and would reccomend them to anyone


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## dookie

What did you order for a clutch kit?



fstang24 said:


> Well throttle control is a must. I managed to smoke my belt a little bit that was my fault. You do loose some low end but that was expected. I have a clutch kit ok the way. They ride fairly smooth on hardback over 5mph. They pulled great in mud and are east to trail ride with. Very satisfied with the tires and would reccomend them to anyone


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## fstang24

Well I know aftermarket primarys are the way to go but I did not want to dish out that kind of money. I went with a dalton dbo1000r clutch kit, I read alot of good reviews and talked to folks who run them and all were satisfied them. Should have the kit by the end of the week so I will post a review about it. Stay tuned


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## kirkland

glad you posted about it, my 650 hates 4 wheel drive now =( lol no trouble in 2 wheel drive tho haha ... my research continues lol


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## lugnut1009

Kirkland, I didn't realize you had a 650.


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## kirkland

It's all good lugnut, I should of put it in my sig lol would of made things alot simpler


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## JPs300

IMO, the clutch kits aren't "cost effective". Spend close to half the cost of a primary and still have the sheeve slip issues & less than optimal take-off ratio of the stock primary. 

Throw a spring or two in the stocker & ride out till you can spring for one of the aftermarket primaries; at $120 per belt they will pay for themselves in a bout a year if you ride very often.


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## kirkland

So obviously getting a new primary and secondary would be the best setup 

But, not wanting to spend that kinda coin a clutch kit will take care of my issue but for how long ? Am I still gonna run into the same issues smoking and slipping the belt and my quad still hating 4 wheel drive 

What is the $399 kit on qsc ? There's no way that's a machined primary is it ?
And the $830 kit shows a primary and a secondary ? That doesn't seem to bad a price if its for both..


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## lugnut1009

kirkland said:


> So obviously getting a new primary and secondary would be the best setup
> 
> But, not wanting to spend that kinda coin a clutch kit will take care of my issue but for how long ? Am I still gonna run into the same issues smoking and slipping the belt and my quad still hating 4 wheel drive


It will help a little by raising your stall, keeping rpm's higher throughout clutch stroke range, and increasing belt pinch. But you still have a substandard clutch for big tires. As JPs300 said, just get some springs and don't let your wheel speed slow down in deep thick stuff and you should be ok for a while.

I doubt for $830 you get a new secondary also. Maybe machining on your stock secondary. Don't know much about QSC.


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## narfbrain

i just put STM primary and secondary in my buddys 800 xt that had a clutch kit in it and holy hell it is an absolute INSANE difference clutch kits are pretty much a joke in comparison not to say that the clutch kit isnt better than stock but there is absolutely no comparison they actually changed the setup of the primary and secondary and was like putting in a big bore kit in it.....the shift out is retarded ive never actually felt that kind of pull from a quad it will WALK away from 1k's no problem the stm setup is definatly what can am has been missing they are alot of money but if you can swing it you will not be dissapointed for a single second wish they had a setup for my brute!!!!


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## JPs300

The thing about the STM primary is the time/experience it takes to really get it tuned right all the way through the curve. - The "joke" about them is that stage number = the amount of months spent tuning it out except for the "rage 8", they missed the name on it cause it takes 12 months to get it dialed.......


That's what makes the CVtech or QSC primary more common. Both Adams have a better much handle on their base-line tunes than STM does & they come pre-set accordingly. 




kirkland - the $400 clutch kit is simply weights & springs to tune the stock clutches. I've heard from many sources that the QSC primary weights are better for a big tire/mud machine than most other brand kits, but as noted before I simply can't justify spending basically half the cost of a good primary on just tuning the stock junker. - The $830 is just the QSC primary, the STM secondary tacks around $500 onto that cost.



I'm currently running a 650 secondary helix, an orange EPI primary spring, and 3 renegade/XMR primary weights. - It's a pretty good set-up for the stock 800 clutch & my 29.5 law2's, but from a dead stop in 4wd in thick stuff it still has issues where my buddy's CVtech/machined 2ndary shows it's worth.


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## narfbrain

I don't know but he order through stm told them bike tire size and he rides like a retard the bottom end had huge gain mid and high range are retarded I will be taking it out today to see top end speed gains but it used to fall off and go pretty slow after about 65mph and now at 62 (the fastest I've had it yet) was still going like a banshee seems pretty well setup straight from stm to me with no tuning...... They set it up just how he asked......


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## kirkland

I just can't justify the cost of the stm, or even the qsc.. I'm waiting on a email from cvtech to find out what that will cost me ... I don't wanna spend 250ish on a dalton kit if its not gonna make the tires spin in 4 wheel drive from a dead stop and not smoke the belt I'd rather just save it till I can get the better end of the deal 

And since that's the case I need the most cost effective way which seems to be cvtech and a machined secondary tho I'm still awaiting a price.. I don't care about speed I just don't wanna keep smokin belts and gettin stuck bc of it and I don't wanna tune crap I just wanna put it back together and ride lol


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## narfbrain

yep that is the goal and why he went with stm clutches he was having alot of problems with the same thing losing power smoking belts etc and he had a clutch kit...now it spins the tires on wet pavement in 4 wheel the biggest problem i think is the design of the stock can am primary....its some cheap mexican crap IMO dont know if youve looked at it or had it off but the first time i seen it i was like what the hell is this crap.....and i hear you on the cost for sure he is not really sparing any expence on his bike i put in the stm primary and secondary and a set of stage 4 elkas for him......but the design change is an awesome improvement and not trying to push them on you or anything just one of those things you have to see and feel to believe......this '10 800 with clutches on 28's destroys a '12 1k on 26's with pipe and chip and clutch kit start to finish, unfortunatly didnt have the room to go right to top end but i will try that today gunna hit the highway for a bit lol.....I wouldnt have been able to justify the cost myself but after seeing and feeling it for myself i want to see if i can get the to make me a set for the brute.....and as for the tuning like i said was great as soon as i put it in.....i sure hope additional tuning wouldnt help anything or im gunna need a new bike myself if you can get that much out of it lol.....they do the math and tuning for your bike tires etc. before they send you the clutches......they didnt even come with additional springs or weights and i wouldnt touch the clutching anyways with how dialed in it is.....but never know maybe there is better alternitives out there its the first time i have had a chance to try these clutches and they get a full 10 out of 10 from me i would NEVER expect that much of a change.....but whatever you go with will be better than stock clutching anyways


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## JPs300

kirkland said:


> I just can't justify the cost of the stm, or even the qsc.. I'm waiting on a email from cvtech to find out what that will cost me ... I don't wanna spend 250ish on a dalton kit if its not gonna make the tires spin in 4 wheel drive from a dead stop and not smoke the belt I'd rather just save it till I can get the better end of the deal
> 
> And since that's the case I need the most cost effective way which seems to be cvtech and a machined secondary tho I'm still awaiting a price.. I don't care about speed I just don't wanna keep smokin belts and gettin stuck bc of it and I don't wanna tune crap I just wanna put it back together and ride lol


 
CVtech is $800 by itself, 2ndary machining is $150. - The 2ndary machining is not required for the CVtech or the QSC, but it gives you more gains by pulling the belt fully down onto the one-way bearing(allowing the full % of take-off reduction available from the smaller one-way bearings in those clutches) and also helps limit the "flash over-rev" associated with the faster primaries & overly slow stock 2ndary when you nail the throttle off-idle. 

At $120 per belt, it pays for itself pretty quickly if you ride often. My buddy went through 3 belts in around 120-150hrs on his XMR, he has been on the same belt for over that many hours now since installing the CVtech & machined 2ndary. - I'm at 50hrs now and my original belt is already showing it's butt; still functional but performance is down.


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## fstang24

kirkland said:


> I just can't justify the cost of the stm, or even the qsc.. I'm waiting on a email from cvtech to find out what that will cost me ... I don't wanna spend 250ish on a dalton kit if its not gonna make the tires spin in 4 wheel drive from a dead stop and not smoke the belt I'd rather just save it till I can get the better end of the deal
> 
> And since that's the case I need the most cost effective way which seems to be cvtech and a machined secondary tho I'm still awaiting a price.. I don't care about speed I just don't wanna keep smokin belts and gettin stuck bc of it and I don't wanna tune crap I just wanna put it back together and ride lol


 *Here is an email I got from Adam a few weeks ago regarding the cvtech and machined secondary.*

I would recommend the CVtech primary clutch with new upgraded plate and sliders $800.00

CVtech primary clutches - This primary clutch is a centrifugal roller primary clutch design which is also the same concept that many other manufacturers use for its simplicity and durability and performance. The CVtech primary clutch clamps a belt harder than any other clutch anywhere near its price meaning you wont slip and smoke any more belts. This clutch also gives a super low starting gear ratio meaning you get TONS more low end by gaining this lower gear ratio. Another great aspect of this clutch is its overall weight, it is lighter than the factory primary clutch meaning your engine will rev faster, helping you accelerate faster. The CVtech is also a larger diameter than your factory clutch meaning you will also run a taller gear ratio allowing you to run less RPMs at a set MPH meaning you burn less RPMs on the trails so you burn less fuel. One of the best selling points for the CVtech is its sealed one-way bearing which gives you superior engine braking over stock, since you have a lower starting gear ratio with the smaller one-way bearing, you also gain a lower engine braking ratio giving you superior engine braking and down-hill descending control over any other clutch on the market. All the CVtech clutches built for can-am 800 and 1000 engines come with our upgraded plate which handles all the power you can throw at it with no problems or issues.


Secondary Machining $100.00

Machined secondary clutch - Alot of you have heard of it, seen others with it listed on forums, but it seems the machined secondary is one of the most unknown about things i do. The majority of people think a machined secondary is only for top speed, this is FAR from the truth. When i machine a secondary clutch, i do many things to it, the first and most notable thing is i machine the secondary to close more, allowing the secondary to squeeze tighter pushing the belt higher in the secondary gaining you an even lower gear ratio over stock. With a CVtech primary clutch and machined secondary combo we see 25-26% lower gear ratios over stock. This super low gearing gives you the power to turn any tire, in any situation. Having the super tight belt pinch created with this machining gives you the assurance that your belt will never run loose, and never slip. The secondary machining we do also changes the angles of the secondary sheaves, by doing this we can create a faster upshift which allows you to accelerate faster. When we are machining the secondary we also allow the belt to drop lower in the secondary which helps with the taller gearing ratios that the CVtech is capable of.



Complete bolt kit for primary and secondary loctite included $30.00 (optional) these bolts are stonger than stock and wont stretch like a stock bolt will.

A clutch Puller will be needed if you do not already have one $40.00 (optional) this pulls stock primary off and allows you to install your new primary.

(+shipping)

Normally it's a 7-10 day turn around.


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## kirkland

I guess I'm bout to drop another grand on my 650 what the heck.... I never would of guessed I'd get this deep into it

The ol2s are to B.A. To get a dif tire so I don't have a choice but to upgrade the clutch. Id rather do it all at the same time but I guess I could buy the primary.. Then after get the machined secondary but that's the cheap part lol

I just don't think I'll be satisfied with just a clutch kit


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## fstang24

I yet to have take out the renegade 1000 with the dalton clutch kit installed, I hope it satisfy me, I hate to drop anymore cash on clutches.


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## kirkland

Part of me wants to just buy a kit, but it's only a 650 so idk if it will do me much good with these tires, I think I will need all the help I can get... But idk maybe I'm wrong, but it did make me mad when I stopped in some mud and went to take off in four wheel drive and it didn't spin the tires they didn't even move... That's not acceptable lol


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## fstang24

I know how you feel, im so tempted to order a cvtech


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## lugnut1009

Just do it and don't look back!!!

And if you do look back, you'll say "I sure am glad I spent the money on that clutch" (as you pass a guy with a smoked belt on the side of the trail)


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## JPs300

The cost is why I have a $30 spring & $50 helix in my bike for right now. I've already gotten more life out of my belt than the XMR stock clutching ever did and I ride two-up 95% of the time, so they definitely helped for minimal investment. 

That said, it's still just a matter of time before I drop the coin on a primary. Having first hand experience with the difference I know it's definitely a worth-while investment.


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## RYAN.

While your on this topic JP how did you like that WCD on your cat is it worth the $1250?

2010 mud pro
31 laws HL wheels
PC3 and HMF
SLD delete 
Racked
Clutch kit


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## JPs300

RYAN. said:


> While your on this topic JP how did you like that WCD on your cat is it worth the $1250?


Yes, but I'd also say hold off on it if you're thinking about it. There is a new one coming to market(with certainty, as I've already seen the parts myself) using the same CVTech trail-block and it will be cheaper. 

Several people noted the lack of wet-clutch "cushion" was likely an added strain to my drivetrain issues on that bike. - While I agree with that, there isn't a wet clutch out there that would have held that motor for very long, so putting it back in wasn't really an option either. 


On this same subject but back to the BRPs, the person who is coming out with the new kitty wcd is also working on machining the CVtech to suit the hams & will likely be notably cheaper on them as well. - The only real "hold back" to either being released is getting some time on a few set-ups to get some base-line tuning figured out.


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## kirkland

JPs300 said:


> On this same subject but back to the BRPs, the person who is coming out with the new kitty wcd is also working on machining the CVtech to suit the hams & will likely be notably cheaper on them as well. - The only real "hold back" to either being released is getting some time on a few set-ups to get some base-line tuning figured out.



So I should hold off on the cvtech ? I'm confused lol I was gonna be purchasing tomm.. Most likely still will be.. But I'm gonna hold off on the machining till after my little Christmas break so my quad isn't down..


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## filthyredneck

I have a Cv tech in my gade....very notable difference between the stocker and it. It has turned my 31s in every situation I've put my bike through so far. I'd say it's a worthy investment. Make sure you let Adam know you have a 650, I'm sure he'll throw some extra magic in the machine work. My secondary is still stock other than swapping to a 650 helix.

"Killing Time Using Tapatalk 2"


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## JPs300

kirkland said:


> So I should hold off on the cvtech ? I'm confused lol I was gonna be purchasing tomm.. Most likely still will be.. But I'm gonna hold off on the machining till after my little Christmas break so my quad isn't down..


Gonna be a little while yet before the other one is released and won't likely have much(if any) 650 tuning info to go off of, so you'd probably be best to go ahead & get it from Airdam for now.


It's definitely the one key component left to do on my bike.


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## kirkland

Well took it for a spin, and my bike has balls again.. It didn't wheelie like I thought it would but that's bc it was diggin looking for traction then before you know it your topped out, it had no trouble with my 28s on hard pack can't wait to try the cvtech in the mud.. But it gave my bike more pep than it had stock that's for sure .. Now I wish the cold would go away lol


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## JPs300

Mine is now officially as good as the stock clutch can get for my useage. - Orange EPI primary spring, 650 secondary helix, three stock outlander weights & 3 renegade/XMR weights. 

Lots of responsiveness & will sling the 29.5 law2's as needed, in everything I threw at it. I'm sure I will use be shifting between ranges bit more than before, but that's part of having a mixed use bike. - That said, was no need to come out of low all weekend at our local park, from the muck to the woods trails to the speed limited access roads it was just fine.


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