# BIG PROBLEMS!!!



## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Ok Im pretty sure I toasted the motor today but would like some opinions on just how bad it might be. 
First of all Ill start off saying that shortly after I bought my brute a month ago it would miss or backfire. Im completely retarded when it comes to 4wheelers and a couple of my buddys would do similar things and they said it wasnt a big deal so I just ran it. B ut when I got the thing it would do just over 70mph on the gravel then a couple weeks later it started popping and missing while it was being ran wide open and would only hit 67. So yesterday I print off the directions for a snorkel and put one on it...today when I rode into town to meet up with the group it wouldnt go over 64. we creek rode for seven hours and when we hit the gravel to head home I was doing 60 and started to hear a clanking noise coming from the belt exhaust and started loosing power. This went on for about 100yds and I shut it down then restarted it and it clanked for awhile then just died and I think its locked up...wont crank at all with the starter or the rope, I cant even budge the rope. So guys what exactly do you think is wrong and how much am I looking at for a repair/rebuild bill???


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Oh ya and just incase it matters its an 05 BF 750


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## bruteman (Dec 29, 2008)

could be a spun bearing any knocking flynt on highlifter a while back told me $1800 stock rebuild $2500 for high commpression rebuild


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

sounds to me like your belt is in pieces and has locked up the primary. 
has happened many many times. take off the cvt cover and you will see.
cost you a new belt, about 65 bucks.


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## bruteman (Dec 29, 2008)

good call I forgot about the belt sorry for the scare


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Well Ill check the belt but for some reason I just have a bad feeling. Would the belt coming apart cause a knocking noise to *** up the belt exhaust snorkel??? It really sounded like a metal noise but hey what do I know like i said before im still all new to this 4wheeler stuff. I hope thats all it is but I guess Ill figure it out when its apart thanks for the advice I was already tryin to budget a rebuild, lets just hope your right


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Also what would cause a belt to scatter? I realize they just do that eventually but the guy I bought it from claimed to have just put one on before I bought it.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

belts blow for a number of reasons.. heat, age, load, misaligned pulleys and sometimes you get just a plain old dud.

belt coming apart will clank loudly.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

would that explain the loss of power then the lock up both?


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

yep. it does. explains both conditions (loss of power, then a clanking then lockup)

pull that cvt cover. 8 10mm bolts and loosen the exhaust snork.
pull it off. 
you will likely need to pull the primary off to get the belt pieces removed from behind the primary if any made it. also check the fins behind it. if some are bent, straighten.


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## 650Brute (Dec 18, 2008)

Good call, I bet thats the issue...


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## Stretch8z (Jun 24, 2009)

I found after i snorked mine (belt on the right and air on the left fenders). the belt seems to get hot and blow apart if im going full out for a few miles. 
Also dont over tighten the belt housing cover bolts. they are made of weak steel and will snap. I have made this mistake.


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## 08GreenBrute (Jul 13, 2009)

yea the bolts are very very soft so but them in by hand the jsut snug them up


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

well what did you find out? i see you got a quote on a new belt in that other thread.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Nothing yet I keep it at my dads out in the country and havent made it back out just thought Id pick up a belt to save a trip incase thats the problem. If its not I guess Ive got an extra belt and a bigger repair bill. Ill be sure to give ya an update when I can get a belt and make it back to tear it apart


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Aight broski.


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

It's ALWAYS a good idea to have an extra belt!!


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## skid (Jun 18, 2009)

just had this same thing happen to me a few weeks ago and was also hoping that it was my belt but it wasn't it was one of my bearings on my crankshaft and as of last night i just finished doing the rebuild and saved huge cash doing it myself. My problems were exactly the same loss of speed over a short time then heard a noise coming from my cluch exhaust then wouldn;t turn over. Hope its not that and just the belt, good luck!


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Well Im not sure what to think now... I took the cover off and the belt has some chunks missing but I cant find them anywhere. Im wondering if maybe the previous owner lied about the new belt. But heres the thing, I tried turning the motor over with the clutch and it was VERY HARD to turn the first couple of rotations but now seem to be somewhat easy and I can here air in the airbox as the motor cycles. But when I try to start it the starter will only turn it over a couple times then acts like the battery is dead. So I tried to use the pull rope and its all but locked up, it wont budge an inch until you crank the starter then it will pull but very hard still. Any ideas??? 

Are there any kawasaki or small engine gurus willing to maybe have a short phone conversation so I can better explain the issues and maybe get some advice on what to do next?


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Im still praying for you. You need to make sure those missng chunks are not behind the primary. Theres not a lot of room back there and getting chunks back there will cause what u are seeing... Hard to pull, stuck, then breaks loose, stuck again. 
Prayin for ya!


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Is there any reason why I can turn the clutch freely now in both directions but cant budge the pull rope unless the starter is turning the engine over? Is there any way to pull the primary with regular hand tools, I dont have any kind of clutch puller or know anything ab out how they work or how to take them off or put them on.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Thats something id like to know. Does it turn over freely and run with the primary removed. You will need a clutch puller bolt.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

heres a pic of the b elt it has a couple of spots like this


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Im not sure what this is if its some kind of silenoid or what but when I try to engage the starter this thing clicks once but then the starter doesnt turn over, its hot wired directly to the battery, the small part with the red connection from the battery


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

that's normal to hear that clicking when you hit the green button.

on a side note, the deflection looks good on that belt


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## 06REDGRIZZ (Mar 6, 2009)

sorry bro but it sounds to me like you have spun a rod bearing thats exactly what mine did the first time i spun one.


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## FABMAN (Dec 18, 2008)

OK you need to pull the clutch off its really EZ! However you need the puller $35. If you don't buy a puller you can bring it to the dealer and have them pull it for ya. It will cost ya. Like phree said you need to eliminate the clutch as a potential problem. That chunk out of your belt is *huge* and you said you had a couple of spots like that. You can start the bike without the clutch just don't rev the **** out of it!! or run it long 5-6 minutes is fine. Make sheer you plug the stuff on the clutch cover back in and put it to the side before you turn the key on or you'll trip the belt light on. If you do that its no big deal but you'll just have to reset it.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

06REDGRIZZ said:


> sorry bro but it sounds to me like you have spun a rod bearing thats exactly what mine did the first time i spun one.


We're hoping that aint the case


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## Polaris425 (Dec 16, 2004)

yeah Id say its time for a new belt......... no doubt...


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## bruteman (Dec 29, 2008)

The reason I said bearing it does sound just like mine did I thought it was the belt to I hope you have better luck than i did man


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

Like FABMAN and others have said, the easiest way to find out if you have to go into the engine is to pop the primary off the shaft and try to spin it over. If it still won't spin that would be an internal engine problem. I guess something could be wrong on the pull start side but I doubt it.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah Im gonna pull the clutch and see what the deal is. the motor ISNT locked up I can turn it over with the clutch and the starter will turn it over a couple times then acts like the batter is dead, which it could be low. I tried using a jump box but had the same problem it would turn over a couple times then stop, but even when it stops I can reach down and turn it over with the clutch. The pull rope only being able to pull when the starter is engaged kinda has me baffled though I figured it would either pull all the time or not at all


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

If it was bearings or something internal would I still be able to turn the motor over by hand using the clutch?


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## IBBruin (Feb 10, 2009)

Good hot battery
Remove the primary clutch
Remove the spark plug
Try turning over with the starter
Forget the pull rope for now

Let us know the results


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## Foreman450 (Aug 20, 2009)

or just try taking the pull rope off also and that could free that side up too


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## FABMAN (Dec 18, 2008)

1 One thing at a time!!!!!!!!!!! *If you do more then 1 thing you'll never know what you did to fix it!*


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## 650Brute (Dec 18, 2008)

I don't have a pull rope anymore.... Still awaiting the outcome on this Brute


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Gotta wait for a clutch puller bolt from EPI now. This waiting game sucks, its killing me not being able to ride and not knowing whats wrong with it or how much its gonna put me back to get it right again. I called the the dealership to see if they had the puller they said they could order me a kawasaki one for $95, how can they justify these prices thats crazy when EPIs is only $35.


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## KMKjr (Jan 9, 2009)

$95.00 at the dealer!!!

It's only $35.00 CDN here.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah they said but its kawasaki brand, like I care what kind of bolt it is as long as it pulls the clutch. I hate to say it but if they would have had one on hand I probably would have bought it, I hate waiting


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

i thought u knew a guy with a ac 650 V2. that one is that same tool.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

I wasnt sure if that was the one he had or not I just new it was an AC and was hoping, hes says its not so now I wait.


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## FABMAN (Dec 18, 2008)

yep a v2 is a 650 kawasaki


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## skid (Jun 18, 2009)

Have you pulled your oil filter off to see if it is full of filings, like ones that are a copper color, if it is then its probably your bearing.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Ok guys I got the puller in the mail today and left work early to make a run to my dads and tear it down. Unfortunately I did not find the missing pcs of the belt. However I did start the engine and idle it with the clutch off and it just purred at idle without any unusual noise what so ever. It would spit and sputter a little when I tried to idle it up a touch but Im hoping thats from having the lid off the airbox. But when I put the clutch back on and put everything back together it had an unusual metal clank to it when it would idle. It doesnt sound like a internal engine failure ive ever heard before theres no rythem to it like a lifter tick.tick.tick or a rod knock.knock.knock, its more of a clank....clankclankclank..clank.......clank.clank.....clank. And if I push in on the outside of the primary just enough to make it give and then let it go quick it is almost the same sound. I cant tell if its coming from the clutch or the engine, the engine ideling kinda washes it out a bit and makes it hard to pin point.....Any suggestions??? I took a short 15sec video of it with my phone to help show the noise if anyone is willing to let me text it to them, Id try and post it but when I emailed it to myself it wont let me open it.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Sounds like your hearing the weights in the primary. They may be worn out making it rattle more then usual. But even new, the primarys are noisy on all Kawie autos.


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

sounds like normal clutch slop to me


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Well I dont think theres anything normal ab out this clank, its LOUD and never happened before. Are they really suppose to make noise, up until this issue came ab out it never made a single tick. If it is just the clutch what do I need to do to fix it?


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## hondarecoveryman (Feb 28, 2009)

if the noise goes away above a idle its just clutch slack


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Its still there when I idle it up maybe 1/4 throttle , I didnt want to run it harder than that not knowing what might be wrong with it. What causes "clutch slack" and what do I need to do to eliminate it?


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## FABMAN (Dec 18, 2008)

There is a video and thread in hear of the clutch sound 
hear it is clutch noise
is this the sound you are hearing?


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

Metal Man said:


> Sounds like your hearing the weights in the primary. They may be worn out making it rattle more then usual. But even new, the primarys are noisy on all Kawie autos.


I agree with Metal Man, sounds like the weights.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

Yep mine is a bit loud but thats how they are.


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## Yesterday (Jan 2, 2009)

huh. check to make sure the primary isnt hittin against that shroud between it and the case


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

jmeier1981 it most likely your clutch is just worn. I did a quick search for you on kawieriders and found this response from VFORCEJOHN to a " noisy clutch" question posted by another member.





VFORCEJOHN said:


> it may be a # of things. mainly the faceplate bushing goes bad first. then the lower moveable bushing. they then wear the spider pads more either collapsing their size or grooving into the sides of the sheave aluminum.
> 
> the weights and pins can also clack.
> 
> ...


 
VFORCEJOHN is the clutch master. If this is your problem( worn out) and you have to have it rebuilt i would suggest sending it to him to be rebuilt.

How many miles are on your brute?


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

1900 miles

Is VFJ really as good as some people here say I did a search and people on kawieriders were ripping on him bad

If he is for real and knows his stuff then how would I go about getting a hold of him does he have a website, I couldnt find one?


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah I thought maybe that little tuning fork looking thing was hitting it inside the cover but it made the same sound with the cover off.

If it was just worn out would it just start rattling al at once, I mean I put 3-400 miles on it the last couple weeks I rode it and never noticed a peep coming from it.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

VFJohn is good with clutches.Only people i seen dog him were folks offering something else or backing someone else. No matter who you are if you offer work to the public someone is gonna criticize your work...tell everyone theirs is better. Now i'm not saying there are not other people out there that can work on clutches because i know there are but i have not used theirs. I current have a clutch done by John and i can tell you he runs a top notch service.Nice guy with great turn around time.

Besides if your clutch is worn you don't have to have john do his clutch mod to it. Just have him rebuild it if thats all you want done.

Good luck with it either way. Hope you get the problem worked out.


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Here you go

http://www.kawieriders.com/forum/interstate-motorsports/

Interstate Motorsports Barnesville, PA - 570-773-1721


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Well I was thinking about having the stage3 done to it anyways but wasnt quite 100% sold on the idea yet, I suppose if hes already got it I might as well have him work his magic. What do you think a rebuild would cost? I see the stage3 is almost $300 how much would you think a stage3 and rebuild would set me back???


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

I really have no clue. Call John or PM him on KawieRiders.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Well the verdicts finally in... And the repair bill jost got A LOT bigger, went back tonight and pulled the clutch again and started it up and it idled smooth for a few seconds then on came the knocking. Looks like im looking at a rebuild. Thanks for all the help and the suggestions

P.S. anyone have a used motor they dont want ;-)


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

jmeier1981 said:


> Well the verdicts finally in... And the repair bill jost got A LOT bigger, went back tonight and pulled the clutch again and started it up and it idled smooth for a few seconds then on came the knocking. Looks like im looking at a rebuild. Thanks for all the help and the suggestions
> 
> P.S. anyone have a used motor they dont want ;-)


Sorry to hear that bad news man, hope you get it back and running soon.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Its really gonna cut into my snowmobile fund but gotta get it going I suppose. Are there any mods that arent outragiously priced that I should look into since the motor will already be torn down.


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## Muddy Brute Force (Dec 17, 2008)

Are you planning on doing the rebuild yourself or having some do the rebuild? If you have the ability to do the rebuild yourself, you can save yourself alot of money.


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## FABMAN (Dec 18, 2008)

someone is parting out his brute on hear id check him out.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

yep. he wants $800 for the 2007 motor!


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

I checked on the motor and it is already sold )-; looks like its gonna have to be rebuilt. Does anyone here have any experince with aftermarket cams or engine perfomance mods? Just wondering if theres anything I can do to it while its apart that wont completely break the bank.


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

hi comp pistons and cams on stock bore is yer cheapest bang.


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## 06REDGRIZZ (Mar 6, 2009)

well looks like i was right after all! sorry to hear about it. mines still down for the same reason and i watched a buddy of mine sink his today and i hope he gets luckier than me.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

phreebsd said:


> hi comp pistons and cams on stock bore is yer cheapest bang.


Where would I find these kinds of parts? I found a company that does the 800 and 840 kit they also had a stock bore kit with 11.5-1comp pistons are there any other companies out there?


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## Metal Man (Dec 17, 2008)

Heres a few.

Most of these offer a Stander Bore kit even if there website does not show it. Just contact them with what you want/need for better info.

After Midnight Racing

Fundy Performance Sports

Four Stroke Tech

Web Cams

Wiseco Performance Products


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## GWNBrute (Mar 4, 2009)

Is 11.5-1 the lowest compression you can get for the brute
it just is a little high for pump fuel isn't it?


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## phreebsd (Dec 16, 2004)

11.5:1 is fine for pump gas


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Alright so if I wanted to keep my stock bore what would be the best kit and get the most bang for my buck? Or would I even need a kit would I get a noticeable gain from a cam alone or just high-comp heads? I wanna try and stay away from machining work to help keep cost under control. Also while the bottom end of the motor is torn down is there anything that should you would recomend replacing that a shop wouldnt normally do without being told?


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

J prices Brute runs real nice with just a high comp job from FCP.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Masher said:


> J prices Brute runs real nice with just a high comp job from FCP.


Is that a kit with pistons, valves, and cams?


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

Yes that's it.


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

From where and how much?


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## Masher (Jan 16, 2009)

Flynt did his at FCP I'll check on the cost


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## Brute650i (Dec 17, 2008)

flynt is around 2500 using his parts and including labor.

he is in MS. Where are you from?


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Iowa, that would be quite the road trip


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## jmeier1981 (Aug 10, 2009)

Im actually hoping for a decently priced kit if there is such a thing that me and some buddies could put together ourselves. Unless theres a cheaper or easier way to do it say just high comp pistons or just a cam swap


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## Brute650i (Dec 17, 2008)

Gonna be around 1500 in parts if you go with any hi comp kit not including labor the hard part would be pullin the crank and putting it back in


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